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The Christian Civic League of Maine's Mike Hein calls Pam's House Blend:
"a leading source of radical homosexual propaganda, anti-Christian bigotry, and radical transgender advocacy."

He is "praying that Pam Spaulding will "turn away from her wicked and sinful promotion of homosexual behavior." (CCLM's web site, 10/15/07)


Ex-gay "Christian" activist James Hartline on Pam:
"I have been mocked over and over again by ungodly and unprincipled anti-christian lesbians."
(from "Six Years In Sodom: From The Journal Of James Hartline," 9/4/2006, written from the "homosexual stronghold" of Hillcrest in San Diego).

"Pam is a 'twisted lesbian sister' and an 'embittered lesbian' of the 'self-imposed gutteral experiences of the gay ghetto.'" -- 9/5/2008



Peter LaBarbera of Americans for Truth Against Homosexuality heartily endorses the Blend, calling Pam:

A "vicious anti-Christian lesbian activist."
(Concerned Women for America's radio show [9:15], 1/25/07)

"A nutty lesbian blogger."
(MassResistance radio show [16:25], 2/3/07)


Pam's House Blend always seems to find these sick f*cks. The area of the country she is in? The home state of her wife? I know, they are everywhere. Pam just does such a great job of bringing them out into the light.
--Impeach Bush


who monitors yours Bevis ?? Just thought I would drop you a line,so the rest of your life is not wasted.
--"Joe"

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Obama and race: our country is so confused

by: Pam Spaulding

Mon Feb 12, 2007 at 07:00:00 AM EST


I was out of town for a few days, and was, by necessity, mainstream media and blog-free during that time. While at the airport, I saw that Barack Obama finally launched his official bid for the White House, and it's clear that the ways his race is being addressed exposes the inability of people -- white or black -- to discuss race rationally or logically.

Some of that lies in the conundrum of what defines race. It has been fascinating over the last couple of weeks to see the complete sanity breakdown in commentary on Obama's heritage, with the Illinois senator being chastised by blacks for not being "authentically black"  -- witness Stanley Crouch in his column  What Obama isn't: black like me:

After all, Obama's mother is of white U.S. stock. His father is a black Kenyan. Other than color, Obama did not - does not - share a heritage with the majority of black Americans, who are descendants of plantation slaves.
It's an interesting fact that Obama is not the descendant of West African slaves, but isn't Crouch really saying something else here? I think there is a discomfort with Obama by these naysayers of color that is questioning something else -- Obama's fealty to those in the black community who have made a career out of a particular framing of cultural and political "blackness."

Apparently, to some black folks, you aren't "kin" if you don't:
* have at least one biological parent who is black (and now the new caveat, a parent who is a descendant of slaves)
* act culturally black enough (the definition of which is ludicrously subjective)
* you don't have direct ties to the civil rights movement hierarchy that is entrenched in the Democratic Party.

Since Barack Obama isn't speaking about race as defined by the self-proclaimed powers that be, to those in the black Democratic establishment -- in elective office, MSM talking heads, and the party hangers-on -- there's a palpable sense of insecurity playing itself out that is embarrassing. See the debacle after the jump.

Pam Spaulding :: Obama and race: our country is so confused
How bad is it? Illinois Senate President Emil Jones Jr. lanced the boil and finally took it public:
"How long are you going to owe politicians for past favors?" Jones asked in a speech Friday to more than 100 members of the Democratic National Committee's black caucus  and other political operatives gathered at the Washington Hilton for the winter meeting of the DNC, according to people who were there.

..."The one thing that was extraordinarily clear this weekend is that many African-American political operatives are very conflicted internally about whether to support Obama or Clinton," he said.

...Jones' call was received frostily by Clinton allies, including Minyon Moore, the former White House aide who now heads Hillary Clinton's black outreach,  and former Clinton and Gore campaign aide Donna Brazile, according to some attendees.

Moore walked out of the room when Jones stopped speaking, according to two people who were there.  Moore said Sunday she'd left because she had somewhere else to be, and that she would "agree to disagree" with Jones.

Whew. That was so necessary. The fact that Hillary Clinton is trying to cash in the political chips won by her Bill Clinton in the community is no surprise -- the fact that she feels that she deserves the chips (and that her own black allies are faced with questions about their support for her) exposes the "authenticity" dust up again. Obama has to earn black votes, as does Senator Clinton. End of story. Well, I think Classicrose said it quite well.
Why are the black folks at the top troubled? So now it's a requirement that to be really black you must be descended from West African slaves. Do the Census folks know about this? Just create a new category for black folks who's families voluntarily immigrated to the U.S from Africa and the Caribbean. Even if their ancestors were slaves in the Caribbean, according to the black gatekeepers they're not black. Let's see how quickly the heads would spin on the black gatekeepers if the number of blacks decreased dramatically from 35,000,000 plus.
This kind of hair splitting is mind bending.

Is this a generational split that involves fragile political egos of black "leadership," or a deeper, more bizarre internal conflict about political racial purity and class? Perhaps. What I do know is that no matter how you slice it, Barack Obama, in this country, at this time in its history, is black. The man himself knows the deal, and said so on CBS's 60 Minutes (which aired tonight):

When asked by Kroft if growing up in a white household had caused him to make a decision to be black, Obama replies, "I'm not sure I decided it. I think ? if you look African-American in this society, you're treated as an African-American. It's interesting though, that now I feel very comfortable and confident in terms of who I am and where I stake my ground. But I notice that ? I've become a focal point for a racial debate."
There's no such thing as a "post-racial" candidate when you look black. In this country, Obama can still be followed in a store suspected of being a shoplifter, be passed by a cab driver afraid to pick him up, or stopped by a police officer for "driving while black." In none of these cases would it matter if Barack Obama pulled out a family picture to show he's half white.

I think this is what frustrates me with well-meaning white people who say they "don't see color." Of course you do. Our culture is steeped in race, and the history isn't pretty; its legacy plays itself out today. That's not said to engender guilt, but simply to say that race is irrelevant or has no impact on today's society because you or recent generations of your family didn't own slaves isn't helpful. Denial short circuits difficult discussions that need to occur. The defensiveness of these vocal blacks in regards to race is playing itself out so pathologically in the case of Obama -- I welcome it, I only hope that it might lead to more productive conversations about why people think about him the way they do.

I discussed this whole Obama race thing over dinner with wifey Kate a couple of weeks ago, because both of us have interesting and relevant heritage that has made us think about race in many ways. She's half Lebanese, with a family that has been in the country for generations. She doesn't particularly look Middle Eastern, since her mother is white and fair. Other relatives in her family are very ethnic looking. It's a roll of the genetic dice as our population mixes and merges.

I have a lighter complexion, but I'm the product of two light-skinned parents, who themselves were born of lighter-skinned blacks and black/Native American or West Indian heritage. I clearly cannot pass for white, but obviously I have white relatives somewhere in there, but they are generations back in the family tree. When I compare my heritage to that of Obama's, I often wonder how being biracial is perceived in this country in comparison to someone who is a fair-skinned black who is not biracial.

In the quest to assign some level of "blackness" to Barack Obama by both whites and blacks, I think some exercises are useful.

Think about these questions, answer and discuss:

1. Two people who are standing before you, one biracial, one fair-skinned black, and both appear to be black because of their physical features. How would you categorize them?

2. Two people who are standing before you, one biracial person who appears to be black, one fair-skinned black who appears to be white because of their physical features. How would you categorize them? What if the situations are reversed -- any difference?

3. In subsequent conversations with them, it can make a race assignment solely on appearance more difficult; how will you weigh:
* the whole "articulate" thing (the Acting White phenomenon playing itself out)
* their perceived level of education
* how they personally identify re: race
* their political affiliation (and/or identification with the perceived leaders of the civil rights movement)
* the amount you identify with them (the cultural commonalities versus the physical differences)

There are no right or wrong answers here -- it's simply a chance to think out loud about how it takes a great deal of deliberate thought to analyze how we view race, class, and culture in our daily lives. What we choose to do about it as a result of that self-reflection is our choice.

It just appears that people simply aren't thinking very hard (or perhaps too hard) about these deeper perceptions about race when it comes to Obama. I'm not surprised, since it's clear a sizeable number of people either cannot or refuse to look inward and reflect on our need to place people in neat racial and ethnic boxes to make it easier to keep the system we have in place -- as uncomfortable as it is -- because it is familiar. Obama's rise changes the rules of the game, and those already in the game (on both sides) don't want those rules to change.

Related:
* Barack Obama on 60 Minutes
* Waveflux @ Shakes Sis

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Fascinating topic
Well, Obama certainly gives new meaning to the term, or different meaning to the term, African-American.  Deborah Dickerson made some similar points as Stanley Crouch, when she was on the Colbert report, that many African-Americans didn't consider him one of them, and she said that technically, that's true.  And isn't it, in some sense?  His ancestry isn't
American Black but Black African.  I wonder how people would feel if he were half Jamaican?

Whatever, hopefully some good soul searching can come out of all this, and it is a relief to have some clear-speaking candidates like Obama, Edwards, Kucinich as opposed to the careful parser that La Clinton is. Obama-Edwards or Edwards-Obama?  Either way, the country can't lose.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report


Ancestry
I really don't understand the focus on ancestry. I mean, I get that some blacks think Obama isn't authentically black because he isn't descended from the legacy of slavery, but why focus more on a person's parents, grandparents, etc. than the person him/herself? Where Obama's great-great-grandfolks came from - even where his parents came from - does not make Obama who and what he is. Shouldn't Americans of all colors and ancestries be concerned with deciding whether or not Barak Obama himself, not his parents or grandparents, is right for the presidency?

[ Parent ]
Yup!
I was born (actually adopted) in southern Alabama to a family of Southern Baptist ministers and missionaries, but that doesn't make me a homobigot.

[ Parent ]
That's because
Christianity is a choice, not genetic or hormonally caused like other personality orientations.

[ Parent ]
Crouch might know his jazz, but
he is annoyingly pompous. On the other hand, bloviability seems to be the #1 criterion for entrance to punditville/ status as "public intellectual".

[ Parent ]
Healthy
I agree that the conversation and even the discomfort are healthy.  I hope it causes more people to give up on the hair-splitting -- or any splitting.

It is hard to get it right if you're a Democrat
Clinton was a white guy who was too black, Obama is a black guy who is too white.

This is not limited to politics
but happens all the time in the music industry. Certain black artists' music (India.arie, Corinne Bailey Rae) is considered too white for radio stations that cater to the urban audience and at the same time too black for radio stations in primarily Caucasian markets.

[ Parent ]
Like Funkadelic in the 70s
Parliament Funkadelic was considered too "rock" (read: white) for black radio and too "funk" (read: black) for white radio.  They even released a song about it called, "Who Says a Funk Band Can't Play Rock?"

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

[ Parent ]
Oh Puhleeze...
The current black political establishment is frustrated that an "outsider" is jumping ahead in line, and that he has a different position than them. It's more generational within race, but it's easier to fixate on the obvious.

Obama's dad is a real African, his Mom is from Kansas, he is the epitome of the hyphenated american term African-American. Only recently sworn in immigrants more qualify for that particular term.

On the talking head shows Sunday he pointed out that by regular folks of all colors here in Illinois he is a black man. In the US if you've got any visible african race in your genes you are black. Parsing the issue harkens back to ancient terms long discarded (deservedly so) like mulatto or quadroon. Pam is biracial, tho not in her direct parents case.

The country is clearly not over race as an issue. The comments that he is the first "mainstream well-spoken" black candidate reflect the old guard's misgivings about him. He is not a cadence speaking preacher, brought up on the ghetto. So what? 

Let's get over this and let Obama be Obama, and see who he is. I am from Illinois, and I voted for him for the Senate. I am intrigued by Obama, but not sold. I think Hillary is too conservative by half, and hate dynasty politics. Obama is pretty untested, as was Shrub, this gives me pause. Note that I said Pause, not a stopper.

Presidential campaigns (in the Democratic party at least) force a lot of truths and positions to come out about everyone involved. This "degree of blackness" debate is a distraction, and I hope it has no real effect on the real debate, let alone Obama's chances. It would be way encouraging to have him ride Lincoln's coattails to Washington, if indeed he turns out to be the best candidate. 
 


The current black political establishment is frustrated that an "outsider" is jumping ahead in line
As an outsider to the ongoing African-American civil rights fight, I haven't seen a new leader emerge from the movement in decades. It is the same old faces - Jessie Jackson, Rev. Al Sharpton and Andrew Young who, despite once upon a time accomplishments, have all managed to discredit themselves to the greater, multi-racial, multi-cultural public.

Barak Obama is the first to generate excitement in and out of the African-American community in ages.

My question is, if he is so "proud" of his heritage why is he listed in his high school yearbook as Barry and not Barak. Could this "change" to the more Afrocentric appellation have been a deliberate political move to "blacken" up his image?


[ Parent ]
Or maybe...
When he was in high school over 20 years ago, he wanted to fit in and not have a "funny name"?

Sheesh.


[ Parent ]
Divide & Conquer
This Obama's blackness thing is just the latest salvo in the traditional right-wing political barrage of divide & conquer politics.  It works like this:

AVERAGE VOTER:  Say, I was just noticing that since Republicans have had total control of the government, I lost my job, my kids' school sucks, the factory closed down, our downtown is becoming a ghost town, my oldest boy is serving his 4th tour in Iraq, my wife can't afford her prescriptions, my home has three mortgages, we can't eat the fish we catch, you can't see the mountains through the smog, we had three straight weeks of 100+ temps last summer, and billions of our tax money was shipped to Iraq as 300-ton pallets of cash and promptly lost.

REPUBLICAN:  Uh... Er... Well, Bill Clinton's administration didn't... er... well... HEY!  Lookee over there!  Those fags want to get married!  Dirty, depraved fags that will turn your boys into drag queens and teach homosexual sex techniques in the classroom!  If the fags get married, all hell will break loose!  Vote for me and I'll be sure the fags can't get married!

AV:  Uh, okay.  But what about all those other things?  You know, as a black man, I'm really interested in what Senator Obama has been saying about all these issues.  I think he's got great solutions, and Obama may be the first black candidate that can actually win it all.

REP:  Obama!?!  Well, you know he's not really black, don't you?  Sure, go ahead and vote for him, but you know the other black folks aren't going to, because he's not black enough.  Just vote for me.  I'll make sure the fags don't get married.

AV:  I don't know.  I really am worried about the direction our country has taken in general, and about Iraq in particular.  Also, it seems as though there is a rot of corruption running through the entire government these days.  How are you going to fix these ethical scandals in Washington?

REP:  Ethical scandals... uh, ethical scandals... er... WOMB BABIES!  Did you know Barack Obama wants welfare queens to be able to kill their unborn babies in the womb?  Yeah, the unborn, we've got to protect the unborn!  You wouldn't want to vote for someone who wants to kill babies, do you?

AV:  Well, I don't know.  My wife's already has a hysterectomy, so it really doesn't apply to us.  I'm really more concerned about the well-being of my already-born children and their lousy schools and healthcare.

REP:  THE TEN COMMANDMENTS!  Godless liberal secular progressive atheist humanist communists want to outlaw the Bible and lock all Christians in re-education camps!  We must post the Ten Commandments on the wall of every courthouse!

AV:  Jesus Christ, enough already!  I want real solutions to real problems!  What does any of this -- gays, race, abortion, religion -- have to do with the real problems this country faces?  Huh?  What's the point?

REP:  Who's your senator?

AV:  You are.

REP:  There's your answer.

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
And once again...
...Russ nailed it.

[ Parent ]
Great post
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to discuss this. Joe Biden's stupid comments were actually quite helpful because they showed the futility of any attempt to define Obama as "not black."

Wow! Great topic!
I'll be honest, I haven't thought much about Obama.  I've been writing off any Dem pretty much, black or white, until they prove worthy otherwise.

As for race, I've learned a lot in just the past year since I've started working in a predominately black environment.  My partner works there too and I'd look at her like she had three heads for some of the stories she told.

I hate to say this but some of the experiences both of us have had have reinforced some negative cultural stereotypes we both grew up with (for example, that blacks are "loud" or are no better about being aware of their own discimination than white people).  I've literally (and very obviously) been skipped over in being greeted by black officials while the black people on either side of me were greeted warmly.  There's also a lack of social inclusion of whites in predominately black groups.  They'll go to lunch and leave me or one of the other white folks in the office to man the phones.

Part of me shrugs this off because I know when it comes down to it, I'd rather be with "my own kind" too.  I don't want to have to censor my language or my actions because I'm around a bunch of straight people.  Being aware of what we do in excluding others is part of the battle.  I'm aware of it, but I wonder if my office mates are aware of it.


No matter how we hate to be stereotyped
those stereotypes do not arise from thin air. Many of the stereotypical aspects of peoples of color or homosexuals all have a solid basis in reality. That's why we hate stereotypes - because they represent us in a manner that may be applicable to some but not all, especially not me. They also allow us to hate things we see in ourselves while not having to hate ourselves because we have targets on to which we can displace this self-disapproval (hate might just be a little too strong a word).

[ Parent ]
This is a tough one....

1. Two people who are standing before you, one biracial, one fair-skinned black, and both appear to be black because of their physical features. How would you categorize them?

2. Two people who are standing before you, one biracial person who appears to be black, one fair-skinned black who appears to be white because of their physical features. How would you categorize them? What if the situations are reversed -- any difference?

3. In subsequent conversations with them, it can make a race assignment solely on appearance more difficult; how will you weigh:
* the whole "articulate" thing (the Acting White phenomenon playing itself out)
* their perceived level of education
* how they personally identify re: race
* their political affiliation (and/or identification with the perceived leaders of the civil rights movement)
* the amount you identify with them (the cultural commonalities versus the physical differences)

I like how Pam isn't throwing out bullshit questions for us to answer here.  As a matter of fact the questions are so not bullshit, that I've spent the last half hour carefully negotiating what to say about them.  Framing it against Obama is makes it real - which is to say - forces everyone to apply, in a practical sort of way, their own views on race. 

When it comes to Bi-Racial folks I generally don't give much thought to it.  I see how they present themselves and just flow with it.  Of course, that's predicated upon the stereotypes of how they present themselves, which I suppose is incorrect in the PC sort of way.  I generally don't take into account education or political affiliation.  I do look at how people are dressed, how they act, and definitely how they speak. 

Nobody throw shit at me.

It's never enough though.  Some bi-racial folks have learned to navigate both worlds.  One in particular that I'm thinking of can go out to dinner with me and 'acts white'.  When I go to a party at her house and she's with mostly black friends her personality changes drastically and she becomes 'black acting'. 

But it's still more complicated than that.  I don't know if any of you have caught the cultural train wreck that is the "White Rapper Show" on VH1, but here's about a half dozen white folks who are - with the exception of skin tone - are black. 

So I guess the question really more is:  Is there more to being part of a race than skin color?



Not throwing shit.. maybe just muck-raking... ;)
>Some bi-racial folks have learned to navigate both worlds

There are other ways to navigate different cultural environments (I hate the phrase "worlds" - which ones, Mars and Xena?) than the ways you mentioned. Personally I don't talk stereotypically "black" - doesn't mean I can't identify, empathize, and talk to my black family and friends.

>I don't know if any of you have caught the cultural train wreck that is the "White Rapper Show" on VH1, but here's about a half dozen white folks who are - with the exception of skin tone - are black. 

Gawd. please don't use any of the MTV, VH1, or BET minstrel shows as a model of black American "culture!" There is ethnicity, there is culture (which overlap w/ ethnicity but are not one and the same), and there are subcultures within that culture. What you're talking about are subcultures, and really have no effect on the wider ethnicity or culture.

The participants in the show you mention are not acting "black" - any more than the characters on "My Name Is Earl" are acting "white."


[ Parent ]
Whoa....
I don't look at VH1 or BET as models of black culture no more than I see the Cosby's as models of black culture. 

The reason I bring up that show is because it's white kids who are emmulating what they percieve as black culture.  In style of dress, style of talking, and artistic means of choice.  And I'll do you one better...for all of that shows flaws, mistakes, and the fact that I find it akin to watching COPS - they did deal with the "N-Word" issue in a smart way. 

Besides the point.  My apologies about the use of the term "worlds" over a more fitting "environments".  I wasn't trying to be an ignorant ass - I just wasn't thinking when I was writing. 

Being a rather typical _white guy_ I find it extremely difficult to define race without resorting to White Guyisms.  The problem that I find is that there is no more a homogenous  group of black folks on which to base distinctions then there is a homogenous group of "republicans" on which to base destinctions.  When a group is so broad and so large, it's almost impossible to start definning what is/isn't part of that group. 

And the next obvious question:  If that's the case, is there a point in coming up with a definitive statement on race to begin with? Answer:  Yes. 

Which leads me to the dumb fucking question:  If I can't define what is black - somebody who is black should. 

But that's about as silly as somebody asking me to define "what is white?", which I couldn't possibly begin to do. 



[ Parent ]
apparently no one knows
Which leads me to the dumb fucking question: If I can't define what is black - somebody who is black should.

Not a dumb question except that black folks are all over the map about what "black" is as well -- is it physical, cultural, political? This new idea of authenticity that uses the point of origin of your ancestors (West African slaves) is ludicrous, but I see where it's coming from if one is attempting to unite U.S. race politics to it.

Besides, what pray tell, are the qualifications you need to make a determination? 


[ Parent ]
That's just it....
I feel like if we had an explanation of "what is black", it would be a lot easier to have a discussion like this.  I'd love to list off a bunch of qualifications and criteria for you, but if I were posed the same question about "what makes you white?" I wouldn't have the slightest clue where to start. 

What does dress have to do with it? 
What does manner of speaking have to do with it? 
What does social standing have to do with it? 
What does skin color have to do with it?  (ie: light skinned/dark skinned/inbetween)
what do perceptions of upbringing have to do with it?

As human beings, I'm not sure we have the capacity to identify and define the criteria - which is probably why so much of the criteria that is commonly used is based in ignorance. 

You get yourself into all sorts of trip ups even trying to talk about it.  Alibno black folks?  I see them all the time up here on the north side.  White folks who emmulate black culture - maybe even entirely socialize with black folks.  Who are they?  Are they white?  Are they black? 

And while on that topic, what parts of what is definned as black culture have seeped into white culture?  And what makes those things cross the racial line? 

White folks are funny when it comes to race.  There are a _lot_ of white people who take the ol' Chris Rock stance on "black folks vs. N******" - in fact - far too many for my liking. It's really bad when the sum of our racial discussion in this country comes from comedians like Chris Rock or Dave Chappel. 

I think Heidi hits the nail on the head most definitely without  hitting her finger in the process (which I consider a very real possibility - all things considered).  Trying to develop criteria for "what is black?" is a lot like trying to develop "what is gay?" or trying to work with something like gender. 



[ Parent ]
Marlon Riggs...
...made a great film on this topic, Black Is, Black Ain't.

It's very much worth watching, as are all the films of his that I've seen.

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto


[ Parent ]
The reason I bring up that show is because it's white kids who are emmulating what they percieve as black culture.
They are sometimes called "whiggers" and the sheer fact is that rap and hiphop are both being marketed and sold to white suburban youth. Back in the day, Luther Campbell and the 2 Live Crew were able to be as filthy as they wanted to be - until the music crossed over from the black to the white community. Once white parents heard what they were listening to, the shiite hit the fan. I remember my boss at the time showing me some cassettes he had bought for his teenage son and I recommended he listen to the 2 Live Crew before turning it over. He did and was exceptionally offended by what he heard.

The attraction to rap/hiphop culture by white suburban kids comes from: 1) A perceived excitement to life that doesn't exist in the sleepy white suburbs and exurbs. 2) A perception that the personae assumed by the artists are somehow more authentic and about life and survival than the lives they see around them which are all about money and consumerism. 3) Basic teenage rebellion, inasmuch as these teens' parents rebelled against their own parents through rock'n'roll (thereby defusing it as a form of rebellion), manifests itself in rap/hip hop because of both the subtle and overt racism of the parents. By embracing the urban thug/gangsta culture they are rebelling against the white suburban trust fund baby culture and sense of entitlement that surrounds them.


[ Parent ]
"Acting Black" as rebellion
Interesting to note that the musical form of rebellion taken by white kids since 1950 has been to emulate black music, from Elvis to Eminem.  I imagine if the next generation of black artists thrives on recording string quartet music, some suburban white kid will throw on a powdered wig and say, "Yo, B, I gots the illest Liszt Concerto in E Minor track on my iPod, brah!  Man, it's tight!  Homeboy lays down some science on that Stradivarius!"

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

[ Parent ]
Aw man...
I would LOVE to see that.

[ Parent ]
Like Nuttin' But Stringz?
True and already happening...

There are people in the hip-hop world who actively take from classical music and other "white" forms... a lot of people just don't actively register it, I guess because of rhythms, backbeats, vocals, and such.

Of course, same as it ever was. "Lover's Concerto" was a Bach piano exercise (in my piano book as a child) set to Motown beat and vocals.


[ Parent ]
Ok seriously....
Don't tell anybody. I'll totally lose my GOP credibility, but I have a copy of a Jay Z album that mixes old Beatles tracks with Jay Z's "Black Album" lyrics.  Sometimes, as I drive to work in the morning - I crank it up and horrify people. 


[ Parent ]
hehe its called the Grey Album
ITs a great mash up dan by DJ Dangermouse-now of Gnarls Barkley fame...Jay-Z apparently liked it but the money grubbing whores at Apple didnt(not the Beatles mind you, but the people now running it).

Try not. Do or do not. There is no try.

[ Parent ]
Thank you, lyonside
I appreciate your post and your challenging these assertions.

[ Parent ]
This reminded me of freshman year of college in 1970
when, attending a predominantly white college in Boston, I had a black roommate. Having grown up white next door to a ghetto neighborhood in Brooklyn NY this was not a problem for me. We liked each other, had great conversations and hung out together in our dorm room often.

However, this was at the time of the growing black power movement and, with so few people of color on campus, there was a very small but very vocal group of black students on campus which, if you were "a brother" you were forced to be part of or be ignore by your own compatriots.

Because of that group my roommate and I had to keep our friendship to our dorm because he would get hassled if we went out for pizza or a movie or even to the library together. It was ridiculous then and sad now, nearly 40 years later, in that it is still in force in many places.


[ Parent ]
I like Obama
IMHO, he's got great qualities, smart, leadership, charisma and seeks to be inclusive of all Americans.  He's got my interest right now, enough to cast my single vote for him to be president. He grew up in American during & after Civil Rights era of the 50's & 60's and did not live through jim crowism in existence prior to civil rights. I'm sure while he was growing up he endured whites calling him black and blacks calling him white.  I like to feel that America is ready for someone like Obama.

I'm bothered how US New media is ripping him apart over his African-American Heritage.  Presidential Requirements are the person must be age 35 or over and must be born as American Citizen. In my book, he's qualified. US News Media - Just blow off!!!


Great minds
think alike? Glenn Greenwald also has a compelling post about this issue.

Yes, and I really like Greenwald's update
It's a link to Pam's post here.

[ Parent ]
Can we (the US) get this over with now?
I'm actually glad the dumb comments (Biden et al.) and discussions are happening now. If everyone gets it out of their system in 2007, maybe we won't have to hear it in '08 ;)

Pam, you slammed the proverbial nail into the wall on this one. And your questions are exactly how the mass media (and vocal segments claiming to speak for the "black" community) are thinking about it...

I'm biracial (first generation black/white), and identify as biracial first and will gladly tell people the rest. My genetic diceroll made me ambiguous-looking - I'm non-white minority and that's about all anyone can figure out. Other people around me are multigenerationally mixed (i.e. "light") and identify culturally, ethnically, etc. as African-American. That is TOTALLY their right. I sure as hell cannot go around telling someone else how to define themselves, and if someone who I'd THINK is mixed-heritage defines themselves a certain way, I take it at face (!) value.

Immigrant status didn't save Amadou Diallo, and it wouldn't change much for Barack Obama either in the same situation(although I flinched when his wife said "he could get shot in a gas station"-OMG, lady, you couldn't use the proverbial hailing-a-cab example?)

Bottom line, though, we need candidates who intend to represent everyone, not just one group, no matter who. And I'm waiting for everyone on the Dem ticket to get a clue.


Thank you SO much for this:
I think this is what frustrates me with well-meaning white people who say they "don't see color." Of course you do. Our culture is steeped in race, and the history isn't pretty; its legacy plays itself out today. That's not said to engender guilt, but simply to say that race is irrelevant or has no impact on today's society because you or recent generations of your family didn't own slaves isn't helpful. Denial short circuits difficult discussions that need to occur.

Because that claim by fellow whites is a REAL big pet peeve with me. We live in a highly racialised society, so there is no way in hell none of us are not racist. But to a certain extent that's not important, what is important is recognising such, and working to change things slowly. And not getting bogged down in guilt like so many whites do when they realise it.

I'm not sold on any Dem candidate as yet, but I am impressed by the quality of the field on the 'left' (I use the term in it's widest possible definition) for the first time in a long time. However, I am leaning most towards Obama of any of the candidates out there, despite my disagreements with him on certain issues. But then, a perfect candidate is impossible.



Except Stephen Colbert
I love it when Stephen Colbert is discussing racial issues.  His satirical line is "I'm color-blind.  I don't see color.  People tell me I'm white, so that's the only way I know I'm white.  Well, that and I can hail a cab."

Of course the solution to the racial puzzle here is to require everyone to be a part of a mixed-race marriage.  Then all the mixed-race kids have to get married.  Soon, we'll all be the same general shade of tan and we can get over this color/race issue.

Except that by then, we'll start separating into the blue eyes vs. the brown eyes, the blondes vs. the brunettes, the people with webbed toes vs. the people without webbed toes, etc.  It's just human nature.

So, in that spirit, my modus operandi lately has been to use Repugnican Divide & Conquer tactics against them.  Divide them into the pro-fundie and anti-fundie camps.  Further divide them into the Have Mores and the Have Nots.  Divide further still into the Rural vs. the Urban.  Pit Repug against Repug the way they've splintered us for thirty years.

Next, emphasize how the Repugs are the "My Way or the Highway" party and the Dems are the "Live and Let Live" party.  Show how the "My Way" party is great, so long as you're part of the "My".  Show how, yeah, it'll be great when the Christians get "My Way"... but then what?  Will the Protestants want "My Way" over the Catholics?  Will the Baptists have a different "My Way" than the Methodists?  Keep going until you get to the point where the listener realizes that it may not always be his "My Way" and that eventually, he may have to hit "the Highway" when it comes to Republicans (and that "eventually" is when it comes to economic issues... it's ALWAYS big business's way.)

With Dems you get "Live and Let Live".  You may not like that we tolerate gays, but that also means we tolerate wingnut fundamentalists.  You may not like that we tolerate abortion, but it also means that we tolerate home schooling.  With Dems, you get to live your own personal "My Way", just so long as that doesn't force someone else to live your personal "My Way", and just so long as your "My Way" doesn't harm anyone else's "My Way".  It's messier... but freedom is a messy thing.

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
Great post, Pam!
I think there is a discomfort with Obama by these naysayers of color that is questioning something else -- Obama's fealty to those in the black community who have made a career out of a particular framing of cultural and political blackness."
Yes, I agree with your astute comment.  I'm not from IL, did Obama manage to get elected without the aid of "The" (old guard civil rights) power structure? That would explain a lot of their fake concern for his 'blackness'.  It's not where his parents were from, it's who he pays homage to.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Your questions bring me to this hypothesis: white america will accept Obama much more readily than it would a bi/multi racial person such as Pam who's white contributions are farther back, so mainly just genetic.  That is, if you pit Obama against another biracial person whose parents or grandparents are themselves biracial, white america will be more comfortablew with the Obama type person. Why?  because he'll be culturally white if/when he wants to be, and that's comforting to scardy whites who are afraid of/annoyed by black culture.  I'm sure that 'real blacks' see this just as clearly as i don, and some are pissed off about it, justifiably, because it says in essence that they aren't 'freshly' white enough, even if percentage-wise they're no different.

Lurleen on Twitter


Like Biden's Comment
I don't think Biden was being racist (necessarily) when he described Obama as a smart, articulate candidate who can win.  I think it was more a slam at Rev. Jackson and Rev. Sharpton, something like "Here's a black guy running for president who isn't a rhyming, sing-songy cadence, black preacher type that scares whitey."

You may have nailed it with the "old guard black leadership" angle.  I think many people (including sympathetic whites) have been yearning for a charismatic black leader for a new generation.  The sing-songy rhyming preacher was never done to better effect than Martin Luther King, Jr., but that was a voice for the 1950s & 1960s.  Post-Civil Rights Act the remaining leaders have seemed to be but a fading echo of Dr. King.  Obama gives us the first black leader secular candidate in a political mold, rather than a religious leader crammed into a political mold.

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
And that's why Obama has great potential....
At least, that's what I said here

We need to have discussions like this to see what the actual state of race and racism is in this country.


questions on race over at Pandagon
I cross posted over there, and I answered a couple of questions (in ital) that you all may want to explore...

Even though your parents were both black, doesn't the fact that you've got "white blood" somewhere back there also make you bi-racial.

MAJeff, not really. I don't have the cultural experience of being raised by one white parent and one black parent. Biracial children have two sets of extended families that are of a different race and likely completely different "cultures." That is unique to that particular circumstance and likely can shape how one is raised - and how they perceive themselves.

Are you sure about that? A lot of bi-racial people fall into the "what are you?" category. Just because they may have a darker skintone doesn't mean they look black.

As do many light-skinned blacks who are not biracial. I have a lot of NY relatives who have straight hair and are often mistaken for being Puerto Rican or "other". I was mistaken more often when I lived there - before I began wearing my hair unprocessed (now it's in locs; I received the kinky hair gene).


To me, it's all about self-identification
Good questions.

1)I would categorize people who appeared to black as black.

2)I would categorize the person who appeared to be black as black.  The person who appears to be white, I might think they were white just looking at them.  However, if I spoke to the person and discovered that they were black, I would consider them black.  If I'm not sure of a person's race when I meet them, I'll try to find out when I get to know them how they identify.  There was a young woman at my last job who I assumed was white based on her appearance, and I later found out she was black.

3)Race is a subjective category.  Others will look at us and perceive us as being of a certain race.  But since there aren't hard and fast divisions (even skin color can't always define race), I always take the word of the person as to what their race is.  How they speak, their level of education, etc, is irrelevant.  The amount I identify with them has little to do with race.  I'm white, and I have dark-skinned black friends with whom I identify very much.  That part has more to do with class and background...I usually identify with people who grew up in families similar to mine with similar educational backgrounds. 

Part of the reason I would assume the people in question 1 and 2 to be black is that most of the people I know who are black-white biracial or very light-skinned identify as black(a few prefer to just be considered biracial).  But ultimately I would use whatever category they chose.  I think we have an obligation to take a person's word on their race the same way we do on their sexual orientation.  Our personal perceptions can be wrong.


Messin' wit Whitey
I think Halle Berry said it best when she was questioned about her light complexion: "Nobody's ever mistaken me for white."

Obama nailed it, as did you Pam, in that it wouldn't matter if your mom was from Norway and your dad was from Siberia, if you look black, you're black with respect to the treatment you'll receive in American society.

While watching The Colbert Report, he had on some black female professor discussing the Obama race issue.  She said that while Obama may be African-American, he's actually African African-American.

Sheesh.  Look, most us white folks aren't virulently racist and try to be accommodating and sensitive.  Most of us are sensitive (sometimes overly so) about appearing racist (Joe Biden notwithstanding) and don't wish to offend.  So, to help us out, could y'all come up with one descriptive label and stick with it?

"African-American" is bad enough, considering that not all blacks are African-American and not all African-Americans are black.  Now she wants "African African-American" versus "African-Americans"?  Man... one decade it's "colored people", next it's "people of color", then "negroes", then "Afro-Americans", now "African-Americans"... what's next, "Descended-of-West-African-slaves-African-American"?

Personally, if I had a vote (and I don't), I'd vote for "Negro-American".  If you're looking for a term to separate the dark-skinned descendents of West African slaves from other dark-skinned Americans, I can think of nothing more succinct.  You can then keep "African-American" to refer to black people of non-slave African descent and "black" to refer to all dark skinned people of African or Caribbean heritage regardless of slave ancestry.

Of course, that term is only necessary if you feel that descendants of slaves need to be separately identified.

No offense intended.
--"Radical" Russ, Anglo/Franco-American

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson


Amen on Obama
In this country, at this time, he's black. With the complex of things that go with that.

But what I want to go back to, is why in hell does Clinton have "chips" with black leadership? Bill signed the "welfare deform," a transparent attack on African-American women designed to buy off racist whites. He doesn't get shit from  me.

Can it happen here?


I still haven't figured that out
He also allowed the execution of a mentally retarded black man in AK to go through, and he dumped Lani Gunier, who was supposedly a family friend, like a hot potato. But he's from the South and he's a Baptist and his office is in Harlem, so I guess that's enough for some folks.

[ Parent ]
chips
maybe becasue it was Bill that signed that into law, not Hillary.  I'm no Hillary fan, but even I refuse to judge her by her husbands actions.

Lurleen on Twitter

[ Parent ]
BE ON THE LOOKOUT
Barak Obama is not the first American of color to run for President.

This morning at 2AM I watched a Black History Month program on my local PBS station about Shirley Chisholm, the first woman of color to be elected to the House Of Representatives and the first woman or person of color to make a serious run for the Presidency way back in 1972 - when as a young college student I worked for her candidacy.

I would recommend every try to find this program and to watch it. It has plenty of interview footage with this great great pioneer as she travels across America putting her case, and the case for all women and all people of color in front of the American public for the first time.

If nothing else, you will see how many of the issues that Barak Obama is facing from within his own party and his own "race" are not at all different than what Shirley Chisholm went through then.

She was a clean ("Unbossed & Unbought) and articulate (former school teacher) person when those words were not considered pejoratives. It's a fascinating look back to a time in which the events of the world have their echoes in current time. Try to find it and watch it please.


An Amazing Post
Pam,

This has got to be one of the finest and (dare I say it?) articulate posts on the subject of race and perceptions of race I have ever read in my life. I envy your talent for chrystalizing all the complexities so well.

Box Turtle Bulletin


thanks, Jim -- this one was easy
I held back posting on this because the news reports and bloviating on the blogs by blacks and white about Obama kept getting more and more surreal.  I genuinely want to know what people are really thinking about race these days, given the strange public utterances out there. There are a lot of convoluted thinking and beliefs that are just now coming to the surface because of Obama, and it's a train wreck of crazy-making "logic" being put out there by supposedly intelligent people.

There is much work to do on this topic that goes beyond identity politics and the black/white paradigm. We are a country in denial and stubbornly fixated on racial authenticity as our country grows more brown and mocha by the day.

It doesn't help that the "leadership" in the black community is wary of the dilution of its voting bloc should biracial and multiracial people actually claim those designations as opposed to identifying as black. What a mess. I'm sure that's playing some role in the biteback from the traditional black Dem toadies.


[ Parent ]
It's SELF-identity that matters.
If you were raised in a biracial or bireligious or bicultural or binational or bisexual home (or even all the above) how YOU identify is all that matters.  Others may slap labels on you but you don't have to let them stick.  (and let me get this straight: Barack Obama isn't REALLY black because he made the bad choice to have some African ancestors whose captors decided not to sell them in America? OK, now that that's clear ...)

As for "acting black", I know a lot of folks who behave differently depending upon who they're with, and in their case it's not "acting" because they're genuinely not aware of their behavior.  That's just how they behave.  We all do it to some extent.  How you behave at home with your loved ones is not usually how you behave in public with your boss.  Different folks, different environment, different behavior.


One thing about Obama...
...that's directly relevant here is the whole style of his politics (and probably his genuine personality, too).

He doesn't ever reassure people that, "Don't worry I'm one of you."  It's obviously a much more potent and complicated issue when race is involved, but questions about Obama's racial identity seem similar in a way to liberal doubts about his political commitments.  (I'm thinking of some of his comments about religion and the whole notion of "bridging divides".)

A lot of liberals, and I'm sure a lot of black people, don't have "bridging" as a goal--but rather "justice" as they understand it.  Indignation, righteousness, and at times anger, are what we expect of people representing us, when the times seem to call for it.  These are emotions that Obama never, ever displays.

It's a good thing, in the long term, to undermine identities and divisions that separate us all into our warring factions.  But in the short term, it feels like a kind of betrayal.

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto


A couple of quick thoughts...
A lot of the Obama attacks were no surprise to me bacause they're related to the same Reichwing noise machine as the Amanda/Melissa/Edwards thing.  The wingnuts just want to weaken any and every non-Rethug that poses a threat of any kind.  They will find/invent/exaggerate anything to weaken Obama/Clinton/Edwards/etc.

What HAS been surprising are attacks from "within the community" questioning Obama's "blackness" and worthiness to properly represent the concerns of Black Americans.  I guess I was naive that he wouldn't have to fight with the "Black Establishment".

I think my biggest fear (which I also had for Colin Powell when he was being talked about as a candidate years ago) is whether Obama might be physically threatened. 

I lived through all the American assassinations and attempts over the last 45-years, and some of those memories are still very fresh and painful.  I'd like to think we keep the nuts under control, but history shows otherwise...


Irony
It is ironic that when interracial marriage was widely condemned, bigots argued that God's plan was like-and-like, and same-for-same.  Now, I see, God's plan has changed to only opposites being good for each other and that opposites compliment.  Go figure. 

Sorry, posted on wrong thread...
This post was meant to go on the key-in-the-tailpipe thread.  My apologies.  I clicked the wrong link...

[ Parent ]
This won't be too exciting.
1. Two people who are standing before you, one biracial, one fair-skinned black, and both appear to be black because of their physical features. How would you categorize them?

2. Two people who are standing before you, one biracial person who appears to be black, one fair-skinned black who appears to be white because of their physical features. How would you categorize them? What if the situations are reversed -- any difference?

3. In subsequent conversations with them, it can make a race assignment solely on appearance more difficult; how will you weigh:
* the whole "articulate" thing (the Acting White phenomenon playing itself out)
* their perceived level of education
* how they personally identify re: race
* their political affiliation (and/or identification with the perceived leaders of the civil rights movement)
* the amount you identify with them (the cultural commonalities versus the physical differences)


American white guy here. (Polish ancestry, if it matters.)

I'm finding this a hard question to answer. Mostly because I'm trying to understand how someone could stop being black when they were, say, a professor.

To me, "black" describes mostly color. I'll get to the "mostly" later. I have, I think, three bins in my head for "black", which are "pale black", "black", and "deep black" - the exemplars of which are a childhood friend; an academic rival from gradeschool; and an African preacher who stayed at our parish while he was going to school here. I'm fairly sure I've never put someone who was more than first- or second- generation American into "deep black".

Obama falls into "black".

As for the "mostly", "black" is also a shorthand for a facial appearance, which is comprised of a lot more variables than just skin color. I haven't ever had to actually sit down and sort photographs into bins, but if I did I suspect that facial shape would be a factor in whether or not something on the boundary got sorted into "pale black" or "black", and possibly "black" or "deep black" as well.

The only reason I know _that_ exists at all is because of a highschool biology text which was discussing multivariate inheritance and used an illustration of an African woman who, I think because of some genetic defect, was drastically underproducing melanin. I was struck by how _wrong_ the face looked without the "right" skin tone.

--GF


Stanley Crouch is an idiot.
This whole thing about Obama not being "authentically black" is ridiculous, for precisely the reasons you pointed out. Joe Random State Trooper isn't going to stop to check if his great-grandparents were slaves before pulling him over on a DWB.

It makes me crazy. This weird litmus test of whether or not you're "black enough" is just as detrimental to the black community* as the colorism that thankfully seems to be diminishing somewhat (IME).

* I use that term with a disclaimer that the "black community" is just as diverse as any other community, and we do not, in fact, have a hive mind and all share the same opinion.


My only objection...
...to Obama is that I don't believe he has enough experience to now go for the pResidency.

...to sHillary is that I believe she has too much experience, of the wrong kind.

If I were voting in the Democratic primary today, I would probably vote for Richardson, and primarily because of his resume, which, as far as I can tell, suggests experience that is not of the wrong kind.


Don't you almost have to?
Pam, you said "Apparently, to some black folks, you aren't "kin" if you don't:
* have at least one biological parent who is black"

Did you perhaps mean "...at least two" instead of "...at least one"?

I'm sitting here mulling what the world would be like if black babies popped out unexpectedly, like queer babies do.


Our country is so confused
This is only natural-as there has never been any true dialogue on race anywhere in mainstream America. It has been buried under the weight of competing interests/influence whenever it has been attempted. On a national level it is very difficult to gleam how Obama's racial identity is shaping perceptions. If this was politics at a local level-it would be a little easier.

Study local elections where race is undeniably a factor and you will learn much. The current soap opera starring Corey Booker-mayor of Newark, NJ touches on every one of these issues. He is black but was the city's first "white" candidate for mayor in over 30 years. Both his parents are African-American but he grew up in a white community and most non-whites believe he is "just visiting" and will be working for the outside corporate interests that fund him. Those interests usually work against the majority Black residents(historically) and they recieve no benefit or crumbs at best from any of the so called progress that is made. At worst their community becomes gentrified and they are displaced from their homes to make room for new, higher income, lighter skinned residents.

Booker's opponent(whom he lost to on his first attempt)told every media outlet for 100 miles that "he didn't have time to teach him(Booker)to be black". He also referred to him as white and at one point jewish(but again both his parents are African-American and not the least bit jewish). Booker won the election on his 2nd attempt(granted he had no real competition) and is now the so called white mayor of a majority black city.

Whites love Corey but none of them happen to live in Newark. He is articulate, educated, attractive, and his complexion is on the medium/light side. From what I have seen-he almost never speaks in terms of race, but when the cameras are gone it might be a different story. He is prone to quoting civil rights leaders, dead presidents, his mother, etc. My guess is that on a national level he would be boxed and packaged as the next great black hope. A guy who attempted to clean up the ghetto but who shows no hint of ghetto in his speech or mannerisims.

  Mainstream white America would perceive Corey simply as black. One can only assume that some non-whites would continue to question his heritage but is that really the issue here? This is politics baby! Where do your loyalites lie? Whose back pocket are you in? If it were possible for the boxing and categorizing to be less of a factor would anything change? Would people's perceptions change? Would America change? Those are the questions I would love to know the answers to.


"Keepin' it Real"
is what this is really about. Sen. Obama, in the eyes of many in our community, cannot possibly be "black enough".  He's not ghetto, he didn't come up in the street, he "talks white".  All of these mean he is not authentic; he's not really "black". 

And these attitudes have kept us underperforming for a very long time.  I was kind of hoping we'd started to get past this stuff, but I guess I was wrong.

I forgot, in addition to the above he has not adopted the "urban agenda", whatever that is this week.


Obama is brown...not black
Obama looks more like a Filipino to me...

If he's the one who can lead a country better...why not? That's more important than whatever is the color of his skin....


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