Prop 8 supporters ape violence of the McCain mobs at two rallies

I hope

that there will be arrests made and charges filed, especially from that first vid.  They'll just keep escalating if they can be violent with impunity.

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by: M @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 14:36:45 PM CDT

On the second video, no charges were pressed

But Charges should of been filed, its no way for a school board member to behave.  

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by: mmunson @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 23:53:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

This is indicative

Of what's going to happen if Obama wins. These people are crazy. I am not seeing any dems or liberals or progressives attack other people but the McCain supporters are out of control.

This is very disturbing. Those people should be jailed for assault. I'm glad it's on video in case charges are to be filed.

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by: HelenWheels @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 14:42:21 PM CDT

Some time ago...

...I was one of the counter protesters at a "pro-life" rally in Downtown Providence, RI.  This was in the 1990's, but I'm not sure exactly which year.  Several of us were known to the rally organizers; we did clinic defense, spending our Saturday mornings making sure that women who came to the clinic to have safe & legal abortions got from their car to the clinic door with minimal harassment and threat.  Most of the speakers at that rally were part of the group who routinely harassed women entering the clinic.

It was a generally safe experience for us.  There was enough of a buffer between us and the protesters that the attacks from them were, with very few exceptions, entirely verbal.  We were instructed never to respond to the protesters, no matter what they said, and most of us were quite good at that.  The only time I ever said anything to any one of them was when one of them tried to grab my arm as I was done with my shift and getting ready to head home.  I told him that touching me in any fashion was off limits and that I'd get the police involved next time he made physical contact with me.  He never touched me again.

But back to the rally: I remember one specific incident from that rally because it really scared me.  What's most frightening about it now is that it seems incredibly tame.  But here's what happened:

One of the regular protesters from the clinic walked right up to us as we were setting up our counter protester.  He pulled a camera out of his pocket and flashed it in the face of a friend of mine (who had never done clinic defense).  Then he yelled at my friend, and I will never forget these words: "now I've got your picture so I can find you and kill you, you faggot!"

The police were right there.  Didn't want to take a complaint.  Figured their best move was to keep us apart from one another and keep anything from getting ugly.  Guess that wasn't "ugly" enough to warrant any action in their book.  

But really.  Wow.  I remember that and think of how scared I was at the time and then I see things like this and think "well that was just nothing."
When did people start thinking it was acceptable to act like this?  I understand having your world-view threatened, and I've come close to getting gaybashed a few times in my life, and have seen some pretty nasty stuff in political events, but this is insane.

I'm only a click away.

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by: JulieWaters @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 14:51:03 PM CDT

To try to answer your question, Julie...

...two reasons:  There's safety in numbers -- even for those who PERCEIVE that more people agree with them than agree with you -- and they believe that "no jury will convict me."  Two: There is some ingrained, intrinsic NEED for certain people to tell others how they MUST live and, in correlation, would NEVER consider having an abortion, marrying someone of the same sex -- or a different RACE -- and feel that they have a similar codicil to FORCE others to live as they do.

I guess.

Try this:  

Talk about Life imitating ART!  No, those who oppose everything we're arguing about, blogging about -- and voting FOR -- do not have the right to tell us how to live and especially don't have the right to do so with violence and intimidation.  But those in opposition share many things with us; two of which are the right to the pursuit of happiness and the RIGHT to VOTE.  Personally, I'm worn down with this "us" and "them" mentality and vitriol.  I'm clinging to one thing that will become more apparent on November 5, 2008 than it has in the history of our country:

"WE, the People of the United States..."

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by: GraciesDaddy @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 15:44:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Agreed

It's scary and wearing. Maybe that's why I fight by being as bull-dogged as I can in blogging/commenting and when the stress gets too much, blow off steam by being utterly nonsensical.

Only made it through 3/4 of the first video. Had to shut it off. Wish I could shut off the hateful ignorance as easily...

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by: Louise @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 16:19:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

We also...

...have the right to keep and bear arms. I'm not extreme in this, but really--taking away all the guns won't solve much. If I choose to buy a gun (which is what I'm going to do after the election, regardless of who wins), I should have that right. I don't tell people "YOU MUST HAVE A GUN TO FEEL SAFE". It's your right to own or not own one, and for me to try to force it on you is wrong. But it's also wrong to tell me "YOU CANNOT HAVE ANY GUNS BECAUSE I THINK THEY CAUSE CRIME", because that's forcing a viewpoint onto me.

So if I have a gun and Obama is president, I'll be doing it as a middle finger to the NRA. If I have a gun and McCain is president, I'll be doing it to protect myself when the Dominionists finally get into a position where they can start trying to hunt down all those who are different from them.

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by: acidqueen @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 16:27:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Banning guns doesn't necessarily work anyway.

People just use knives instead, and knife wounds - especially ones around the head - can be just as unpleasant as those from gun shots. Knives are also easier to hide, which makes them harder still to deal with.

____________________________________
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.

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by: tavdy79 @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 17:51:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Same here, AQ.

I'm buying a 9 mil -- and learning how to USE it -- BEFORE I move back to Alabama.

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by: GraciesDaddy @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 17:58:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

They think God, personally, is on their side...

That excuses any and all behavior. That is their worldview. That's why it's ok to murder abortion providers, etc...  There is no such thing as a crime, or even bad behavior, when your are executing God's own plan.  That's how these people think.

That's why religion is such a dangerous thing.  Even peaceful, sane religions all eventually come around to this way of thinking.  That's why I'll have nothing to do with ANY religion.  Any religion is a "God loves us and not necessarily you" club.

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by: Storm @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 20:24:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A common thread,

  The republicans, conservatives, and the christian right have been spreading fear of what might happen if democratics, liberals and decent Americans win.

 They fear being a minority because they know how they have treated minorities and fear reprocutions.  Problem is there is a constitution that they want replaced with biblical law.  We will stand by the constitution.  

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 14:58:53 PM CDT

Amen!

The republicans, conservatives, and the christian right have been spreading fear of what might happen if democratics, liberals and decent Americans win.

Prime examples:  Ayatollah Dobson's future letter to his followers and Janet (Folger) Porter's future news cast.

Also, "Christian Right Intensifies Attacks on Obama"  

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...  

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by: Jon Michaels @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 15:10:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Bingo.

They fear being a minority because they know how they have treated minorities and fear reprocutions.

If you can excuse my pedantry for a moment, it's "repercussions" (and I only remember this because it's got the word "percussion" in it).

Anyway, when I see things like that and I stop to think about the prospect of fundamentalist Christians becoming a minority, I honestly have a hard time thinking of why I should defend their rights. They've already shown they can't be trusted with power; why should I give them the chance to do worse to me if they regain their political strength?

I don't think there's been a single minority group of any sort that fundamentalists didn't find some excuse to hate. I refuse to give them that opportunity ever again.

In the end I'll defend my rights which just so happens means also defending their rights. No one deserves to go through that sort of thing. I will endeavor to the be the kind of person I like to think of myself as. I will give all the respect they never showed me.

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by: Bachalon @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 15:31:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I admit, I am not great at spelling, generally I do spell check,

  Home fighting a damn head cold.  But thank you for the correction as it helps me.  I grew up part of the Florida Education system, and have been trying to improve my spelling.  

 And I agree, we need to protect their rights as I believe we all are equal and deserve equal rights.  But I also believe in people being accountable for their actions.  The religious right knows it incites violence against others and have been getting away with it for too long.  

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 17:15:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hope you feel better, HappyCat

and that the furry critters are cuddling you very nicely today!

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by: Louise @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 17:32:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thank you, and the critters are here,

  Fluid, Tea and Orange Juice. Maybe later a few shots of Vodka in the OJ and sleep.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 18:06:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

That's the right idea

Poor pumpkin...get some zs or try.

I tend to go into "super-nuturing" mode, fetching popsicles, Campbell's Chicken 'n Stars soup, orange soda/ginger ale, fwuffy (yes, spelling correct) warm blankies and socks etc whenever the girls or spouse are sick.

When it's ME? They run for the hills! Not even slightly stoic and rather grumpy.

(GraciesDaddy, they even hide the pinecones! Meanies!)

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by: Louise @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 18:47:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thank you Deval Patrick

I am so grateful that the legislature and our governor spared us this kind of hateful violent experience and killed the amendment here in Massachusetts.

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by: kathygnome @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 15:17:34 PM CDT

Scary

Everyone carry around your video camera and get a keg-er of pepper spray, just in case.

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by: juicyjuice @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 15:18:52 PM CDT

Two gay weddings in SF disrupted by pro-8 hecklers

The pro-8 mob are getting really ugly.  Now they're crashing gay weddings.

From the San Francisco Chronicle.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...

More on those same-sex wedding crashers

We told you Tuesday about some wedding crashers at City Hall, and now we've gotten more details. Two same-sex weddings were interrupted Tuesday afternoon, one shortly before 2 p.m. and one twenty minutes later.

In both instances, same-sex couples were saying their vows when two different men approached them and screamed at them. Sheriff's deputies nearby responded promptly, admonished the men for disrupting city business and escorted them out of City Hall. Neither man was arrested.

Eileen Hirst, spokeswoman for the sheriff's office, said she didn't know what the men were shouting, but she assumes they were supporters of Prop. 8, which would ban same-sex marriages in California.

"Clearly it was two people unhappy with same-sex couples getting married," she said.

Could this ugly incident help turn the tide against Prop. 8? Nate Ballard, spokesman for Mayor Gavin Newsom, seemed pleased to talk about it after the mayor has unwittingly been used to support the marriage ban. First, Newsom showed up in a pro-Prop. 8 television commercial, and then he presided over a same-sex wedding attended by first graders.

"Disrupting somebody's wedding is deplorable behavior," Ballard said. "If these protesters believe that shouting during a wedding ceremony is a smart way to make their point, they are sorely mistaken."

Ballard said security at City Hall will be ramped up if there's any indication the protesters are planning to return.

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by: Mike Tidmus @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 15:25:12 PM CDT

"Seemed pleased"??

Wow, have a few cups of slanted bias with the story, huh?

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by: Louise @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 19:26:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

This must be part of the heterosexual agenda.

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by: Bachalon @ Sun Oct 26, 2008 at 00:45:51 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

HOOT! I laughed....till I realized...

Hey..wait a second, I'm HET...but my Agenda has always been on of full acceptance and tolerance..So how about HETEROBIGOT Agenda?

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Sun Oct 26, 2008 at 00:56:07 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Just another reason

to make another donation.  This inequality has got to stop now!  NO ON 8!!!!

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by: juicyjuice @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 15:56:28 PM CDT

can't reason with them

You cannot reason with many of these folks.  

The same "faith" that tells them it's O.K. to torch abortion clinics, to shoot DOCTORS, tells them it's O.K to "disrupt", attack, terrorize LGBT folks who have the nerve to assert they are human beings who have the same rights the anti-LGBT folks have.

To them it's an article of FAITH.  They need no proof.  They have already de-humanized LGBT folks, so feel no guilt when they attack us.

I fear it will get worse no matter who wins the election.  It will get FAR worse if McCain wins.

It's time to start thinking of sensible ways to defend ourselves, our communities.

At least develop a sense of "situational awareness".  Many folks live in a fairly safe little "bubble"  --  they really have not come in contact with those who would kill us as a matter of "faith".

I hope you never will.

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by: tsokol1 @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 17:26:17 PM CDT

Fear being the minority

The "religious right" is a minority.  They claim some sort of message from God drives them.  They are no di8fferent than aqny other rabid-right-wing-religious-group  ---  be they Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc., etc., etc.

We in the USA have stopped educating our young people.  

The USA is a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC  --  basic rule "majority rule, minority rights".  That's why we are not a "Democracy", that's why the very idea of voting on the rights of others is Un-American.

Just remember, "minority rights, majority rule"   ---   that's the goal.

In addition, we are a secular nation  --  neither the Bible, Koran, or any other "Holy Book" holds sway over us.  The sooner we deny these religious-dictators the ability to control the lives of the majority, we can go about building a fair, decent, society.  This does not mean the denial of the rights of ANY others, it's about the RULE OF LAW  --  not the Bible.

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by: tsokol1 @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 17:38:07 PM CDT

Nonviolence

Please let's not give in to the urge to be violent.

Two reasons: (a)it's right, and what we stand for is right.

(b) It wins.

What a day, what a day for an auto-da-fe

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by: revbob @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 20:50:43 PM CDT

Sorry

Too much feeling, not enough thinking.

I meant to say

Please let's not give in to the urge to be violent.

Two reasons: (a)Nonviolence is right, and what we stand for is right.

(b) Nonviolence wins.


What a day, what a day for an auto-da-fe

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by: revbob @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 20:55:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

i was certainly happy

when watching those videos to see that it was the other side that was violent.  violence loses you elections quickly.  let the 'yes on hate' people kill their own proposition by turning off the majority of voters, who are peace-loving people.






Lurleen on Twitter

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by: Lurleen @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 21:45:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Taft is near Bakersfield.

I recently posted a letter I =wrote to my hometown paper that was published Friday.  My hometown is Taft, 40 miles sothwest of Bakersfield.  I guess I'm glad I don't live there anymore, because they are even more redneck than those in Bakersfield.  I sure hope my yes on 8 mom is happy with her side.  The "christian" in them must have died.  Here is the letter:

Dear Editor: I am humbly asking that people vote NO on Proposition 8 in the state of California on November 4th, 2008.

The proposition would remove the right of same sex partners to marry in our state.  As many of the residents of Taft may be aware, I recently married my partner of 10 years, and I am asking that you vote NO on 8 so that everyone may retain the right to marry the person of their choice.

I am aware that Taft is still a fairly conservative environment, and I do not hold any ill will to those who cannot vote NO on this proposition, but I have to let people know that it affects me and affects others from Taft that would simply like to marry whom they choose and whom they love.

Many of you might recall that I was a very active member of my church while growing up in Taft.  I have incredible respect for those with whom I worshiped.  I understand the concerns based on religious beliefs and would never question any ones convictions, as I would hope none would question my still strong belief in God.  I will however ask you to consider the fact that this amendment would do nothing to "protect" the sanctity of marriage, as that is an issue between the couple and their God.   The California Supreme Court, in it's decision, stated that nothing in that decision would require any religious institution to perform marriages for same sex couples.  Religious Institutions still have the same right to perform only those marriages that their Institution believes in, same as it always was.  And I respect that guarantee of religious freedom, as I do not wish to have someone else's beliefs forced upon me.  I hope that you understand the secular argument that matters of civil law should be free of religious requirements, and religion should be free to believe as it will.  That is how it is, and how it should be.  I would also say that the slippery slope of removing rights (and since the Supreme Court decision this year-that is exactly what it would be-removal of rights) of one group, open us up to the possibility of removal for rights of other groups.  Ask yourself if YOU would want the majority to decide if you get to have the same rights as every other citizen.   Fairness and equality for all citizens should never be up for a vote.  All men and women are supposed to be equal under the law in our great country and our great State, this amendment would change that in the State of California.  I would never support taking away your right to choose how to conduct yourself in your life, and only ask that you don't vote to make that choice for others.

It was hard to grow up gay in Taft.  I've lost my best friends and my family because of who I am and who I love, and I have had to accept that fact.  I have been unwelcome in my own hometown because I am gay.  Some will never accept that I should have the same legal rights to the pursuit of happiness and that my choices for my life do nothing to undermine the choices they are allowed in their own lives.

I ask for your support in voting NO on proposition 8 this November.  Remember that your vote affects the lives of thousands and thousands of Californians that you don't know, but it also affects many whom you do know.

Thank you all for taking the time to hear me out, I appreciate it very much.  With much respect and admiration-

PEACE
Robert K Wright(Bobby Koenig-TUHS Class Of 1984)  

The trollish sounding blogger formerly known as BURNSEY

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by: R.K. Wright @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 21:55:39 PM CDT

Non violence

I am not proposing violence  --  I am supporting self defense.

Isn't a survivor far better than another victim?

The rabid right EXPECTS us to be victims, martyrs.  They think us weak, unprincipled, sub human.  Whenever we do defend ourselves it's the attackers who call foul.  They think it their right to attack, even kill, us.  we are not expected to defend ourselves.

In a situation like that, against opponents like that, non-violence is just seen as weakness.  These are folks who think kindness, understanding, on our part is weakness.  They think us incapable of self defense.

It is time to defend ourselves from these theocratic bullies.

Clinics have armed guards.  Dr's. have bodyguards.  They still try to bomb and kill.

Many of us have been bullied all our lives.  Some seem to think it's normal.  It's time to fight back.  

Non-violence does not work when the entire society turns against you  --  just ask the Jews.  

Always remember   ---   "Never Again".

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by: tsokol1 @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 22:39:40 PM CDT

WE were demonstrating for NO on 8 today....

Here in my town. On each of the four corners of our little plaza there were groups with NO on 8 signs.  I honked, then had to get out and join them.  Even young teens, our ACLU, Peace and Justice, and Teachers! 

Since tomorrow is Sunday, I don't know if they plan to rally. I know that I got an email that they want 10,000 on street corners all next week up to election.  I bet they get more.

I have my camera phone ready to video...hadn't used it in a while. and may take my Canon to the next rally too.

Thanks for the tip on the violence..will be watching. 

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 23:56:38 PM CDT

This needs to get out.

These videos should be taken to the nearest TV station and reported.  It needs to be shown to the people at home who don't know what is happening.

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by: Wes @ Sun Oct 26, 2008 at 04:39:36 AM CDT

More Yes on 8 rallies

My husband and I live in Redwood City California.  Yesterday around 10 am on my walk to meet him at his eye appointment, I was greeted by about 30 Yes on 8 people standing at the busiest street corner in Redwood City.  I couldn't stand the thought that there were no No on 8 people, so we made our own signs (I wasn't carrying any!) and stood on the corners alongside these people.  Luckily a woman at the grocery store had some extra in her car so we taped them to our own sign.  There were some screamers, but they were mostly young children--some as young as four.  One woman was whipping up her children and two girls (about 8 and 12) were yelling at us that God made Adam and Eve.  But we outlasted them.  By 2:30 they had packed up and a group of about 10 of us stayed on the street corner with our No on 8 posters.  We left about 4.  Whole Foods even came out and gave us free bottles of water.  After the Yes on 8 people left, we had lots and lots of people honking, waving and giving us the thumbs up.  Even though the churches are highly organized, I think Prop. 8 may go down in defeat.
And it is Sunday, so I am assuming that after they learn about the love of Jesus for all people, they will be right back out there trying to take away a right that has already been given.

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by: kkaatz @ Sun Oct 26, 2008 at 12:46:51 PM CDT