What is the matter with these Texans?

Honestly

I'm beginning to suspect lately that these people don't actually believe this, and that when they say Obama is a "Muslim", what they're really trying to say is that Obama is a "Canadian".

---

by: mcc @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 13:41:29 PM CDT

Willful ignorance

I don't know.

I don't want to know.

You can't make me know.

His last name sounds like "Osama".

His middle name is "Hussein".

There are people who do not want their view dislodged. They will view every attempt to enlighten as trickery, lies, or something from Satan. Their resolve will increase as your arguments become more persuasive.

Their question:

What's wrong with everyone else that people don't see Obama is a Muslim?

---

Claim to fame: Posted first PHB diary to be demoted

---

by: cindik @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 13:47:13 PM CDT

Texas is my homestate. After bush it became CONservative

I love Texas, but not the conservative part which it became after bush was elected governor.  The GOP also took control of the state government with their gerrymandering tricks in the last decade.

Sometimes I think the state is insulated from the rest of the world, which makes them conservate.  I go to San Antonio at least once a year.  There are several military bases there which may explain the conservative aspect of the city.  But it is not as conservative as say Dallas.  Houston is in the middle.

I did have a major rift with a high school classmate, her sister and friends with an email they included me ... the "Obama is a Mulsim" one.  Little did they know what was coming from me.  I disputed every point they made.  I am sure they detested me, but who cares.   Someone had to show the the TRUTH.

---

by: Juan @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 13:47:46 PM CDT

I Resemble That Remark

Hey, cut us some slack here in Texas. After all, didn't we have the brains to ship Bush out of state? And don't forget that we are open-minded enough to teach creationism as well as science in our schools. And we never beat up our gays on Sundays. And it's a wonderful state to live in, if you don't have to breathe the air, look at the scenery, or need intelligent conversation.
Besides, if Obama is a Muslim, at least we can't accuse him of also being a "godless" Communist.  

---

by: myroro @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 14:02:12 PM CDT

Thankyou

didn't we have the brains to ship Bush out of state?

Yeah, thanks for that - now the whole damn planet had to put up with him for the best part of a decade! Nice one!

____________________________________
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.

---

by: tavdy79 @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 16:37:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

the problem is,

Texas has a disproportionate number of dumbasses residing here.

I live in a small Texas town full of redneck idiots.  Population, 11,000

I drove around and there is not one single Obama yard sign or bumper sticker to be found in this 98% white town.  The other 2% are Hispanic.

I know for a fact that it is a death wish to put up an Obama yard sign in this town.
You can be assured you'll get a drive-by shoot em up or a firebombing.
Or dragged behind a truck...
Or some burning crosses..  Six of one, half a dozen of the others.....

I'm TS MTF and I'm terrified of living here.  So I blur the gender line and let people see me as they choose, which fortunately for me is female.

But the way I present I can work my way out of problems if they occur.  It sucks living in Texas.  No end to the bigots down here.

And it really sucks to be too poor to be able to move....  :-(

---

by: Dee-1961 @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 14:28:15 PM CDT

I disagree.

Not about the idiots or the assholes but about "it sucks to live here."

I don't think so.  Don't assume everyone, even trans folk, agrees with you just because you hate it. Don't assume the only good people here are only here because we're too broke to move.

There's a lot more here than assholes and idiots. If that's all you care to see, then I guess I can understand why you think the way you do.

Do you think it sucks to live in America?  The America that invaded Iraq, that continues to run Guantanamo Bay? The America that elected and reelected Bush, that elected Reagan.  Are you planning to leave America too?

You should live where you want to, but if you keep running away from assholes, bigots, and and idiots, you're never going to stop running. World's full of them.  

---

by: virgotex @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 16:04:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

yikes, virgotex

Dee-1961 is unhappy where she lives and unable to move to a place that would make here happier. That's an awful situation to be in.  Try a little empathy.  Yes, there are bigots everywhere, but they are most definitely thicker in some places than others.

Lurleen on Twitter

---

by: Lurleen @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 16:22:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Give me a break.

The only part of Dee's post I took issue with is the part where she makes a generalization about the entire state based on her own experience, which I empathize with more than you might realize.

I didn't say a single word about her own experience in her own town. It does sound awful and I do not doubt her experience.

I challenged the broader statements "it sucks to live in Texas." and that "there are no end the bigots here."  

---

by: virgotex @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 16:30:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I grew up in Texas

In Dallas to be precise.  And was educated in some of its best schools (Cistercian Dallas, Jesuit Dallas).  And I was always taken as some kind of Hispanic foreigner, even though my family was in no way Hispanic, but came from Brasil.  We were bundled into that demographic, and suffered from it, through ignorance and the abnegation of rational thought, never mind an appalling ignorance of geography.

This was thirty years ago, and I can't speak for Texas now, but the fact that W was its governor is not grounds for dismissal.  Lyndon Johnson cared deeply for civil rights and Texas gave us the late and deeply lamented Molly Ivins, whose cussedness took to task all that was humbug in Austin and Washington.  Texas' stubborn streak also gave rise to Ann Richards, even now held as a renaissance of Texan political thinking.

But I think it's worth remembering that a part of Texas' stubborn streak is that of all nations in the union, Texas was the only member that was an independant nation in its own right prior to joining the United States. There is still a plaque in St. James Street in London identifying the Texan Mission to the U.K.  There was another legation in Paris.  And though the republic lasted a scant nine years, I very much got the impression there that Texas, much like Alaska (though it was bought from Russia 20 years later), felt itself exceptional in a nation that prided itself on its exceptionalism.

That of itself is a dangerous dynamic.  But I don't think Texans are anymore stupid than anyone else on either side of the political divide in America right now.  There are plenty in this very forum who succumb to bigotry and lazy thinking (one and the same, really), and there is stupidity and intellectual laziness, as well as thoughtfulness and bravery everywhere.

I am no fan of Texas, but if you're going to condemn Texas for giving us W, and going for McCain, then you also have to celebrate Texas for giving us Molly Ivins.  

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by: Brian @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 14:56:43 PM CDT

note I said "these Texans"

The non-reality-based 23%. Of course we've got some great folks there trying to restore Blue to the state. I'd love to see a state by state breakdown of these idiotic holdouts still hallucinating that the country is in tip-top shape, courtesy of Dear Leader.

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 15:01:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"these Texans"?

What's the difference, Pam, between "these Texans" and "That One"?  Why should what they think and the opinions the hold mean that something is the matter with them?  You disagree with them.  I disagree with them.  But why does your disagreement mean that something is the matter with them?

---

by: Brian @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 15:11:26 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

because they're out of touch with reality?

just a guess.

Lurleen on Twitter

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by: Lurleen @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 15:21:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

There are plenty

of people out there out of touch with reality, Lurleen.  Who are your "they"?

---

by: Brian @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 15:26:02 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

ok, now you;re getting into troll territory.

i think you can follow the comment thread and understand who Pam and I are talking about.

Lurleen on Twitter

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by: Lurleen @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 15:31:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Actually, no, Lurleen, I don't

I don't understand Pam saying 'these Texans' in 2008 any more than I understood George Wallace saying 'these people' in 1964.

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by: Brian @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 15:47:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

concern troll?

you wear it well.

Lurleen on Twitter

---

by: Lurleen @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 16:01:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Same troll

scolded me the other night because I mentioned a story with an "unnamed McCain source". Feh.

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

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by: Louise @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 16:59:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

a lot of difference

I'm referring to the group of people (23% cited in the poll). One can't refer to That One if you don't have names assigned to the people in question, silly.  

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 19:32:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No, isn't it because....

25% of all Texans make money from the OIL BUSINESS! of W and cronies??

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

---

by: Orion45 @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 15:23:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Interesting assertion, Orion

Please cite your sources and state financial records (names, corporate addresses (as well as tax domicile addresses) corporate affiliates and subsidiaries, tax registration numbers, filing records from end-of-year 2000, corporate donations, SSA and Medicare contributions, tax-exempt donations, lobbying fees; you can find most of this here: http://www.window.state.tx.us/...

Do please have a read and get back to me, Orion, I'd love to know what you think.

---

by: Brian @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 15:39:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

you might want to ACTUALLY READ THE POLL, ORION

from the methodology section

The YouGovPolimetrix pool includes people who are much less likely to have access to the Internet or a personal computer. They have been especially assiduous at enlisting people with lower incomes and ethnic and racial minorities, part of an attempt to bolster the representativeness of their samples.

Gee, doesn't sound like they rounded up a buncha folks from the oil bidness, or many of W's cronies.

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by: virgotex @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 15:55:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No way hispanic???

Hispanic usually refers to people either in the US or elsewhere with connection with countries formally ruled by Spain or Portugal.

Are you saying you weren't poor, therefore you were not "hispanic"?

---

by: Juan @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 17:58:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not all Brazilians are Hispanic...

just as not all Americans are white (despite the wishes of the KKK) not all Chinese are Han (there are five native ethnic groups) and not all Britons are English (there are nine native ethnic groups in the European parts of the UK).

____________________________________
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.

---

by: tavdy79 @ Fri Oct 31, 2008 at 04:49:34 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

[SNIFF!!]

I miss Molly and Granny Ann SOOOOOOOO much!!

---

by: GraciesDaddy @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 22:06:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Be careful, Pam

Far be it from me to deny we have a lot of assholes down here where I live, but the article you quoted  states that "23 percent of Texans are convinced that Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama is a Muslim, and you repeat it as fact.

The actual press release by The University of Texas at Austin states:

When asked to identify Obama's religion, 45 percent of respondents accurately identified him as Protestant, however 23 percent erroneously identified him as Muslim.

So, that means 23 percent of 550 registered voters in Texas think he's a Muslim. Even if you agree that a sampling size of 550 registered voters can yield a 95 % confidence level (from the poll's methodology section) about the entire state, it's somewhat misleading to state as fact that 23 percent of  ALL 23 million Texans think Obama is a Muslim.

---

by: virgotex @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 15:52:44 PM CDT

so you're questioning the validity of the poll itself?

you're saying that the pollster didn't get a representative sample.  what do you base that assertion on, other than perhaps not wanting to believe the poll results.

Lurleen on Twitter

---

by: Lurleen @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 16:01:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Why is that a problem?

I'm pretty sure I may be the only person on this thread that's actually READ the actual Poll from the ACTUAL website it's on, (at least I'm the only one that's linked to it) but if you want to  get in my face and say that means I'm questioning its validity, by all means go right ahead, Lurleen.

1)I live here. I am willing to believe there a tons of ignaramouses and assholes.  Just like I'm sure Pam agrees there' a lot of dumbasses in the state that gave us Jesse Helms.

2) I just finished a Public Administration statistics course, one of several I am going to have to take, and thus the very first thing I always do is question the validity of almost any poll I read. Anyone who uses statistics should do that, just like you should make sure any mushroom you pick in the forest isn't poison.

3)I can guarantee you that one established respected statistician can question the veracity of the work of any other staticician.  It's hardly heresy. Statistics is an interpretive science.

4)it's considered good form to point out when you're discussing respondents versus stating as fact something about the target. THAT was really the point of my post.

5)A sampling of 550 registered voters is pretty small by a lot of peoples standards.

6)And yes, I do in fact, doubt that close to 6 million people here, or in any other state, TRULY believe that Obama is a Muslim. I can see maybe one or two million, but not six.  That's just my opinion.  Is that okay with you, Lurleen? That I have an opinion about the state, and the country, I live in?

That's all I'm saying.  

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by: virgotex @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 16:24:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm all for scrutinizing methodology

and conclusions.  I jsut want to know what it is about how this particular poll was done that you find suspect.  If you've analyzed it and found it lacking, you should be able to explain to us how it is lacking.  But all you seem to conclude is "that's not how I see it".  That's not a very analytical justification, if I might say so.

Lurleen on Twitter

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by: Lurleen @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 16:30:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I didn't claim it was an analytical justification

And I did state what I had a problem with, twice:  Not distinguishing between respondents of a sampling pool and the target.  That was the main point of my original post.  

I also twice (well I inferred once and stated the second time) that I felt 550 was a small sample size to yield a 95 percent confidence level about 23 plus million people. Depending on where you come down on recent findings about the role of NHST, you may not feel so. I do. I don't find anywhre on Pam's site that says I "should be able" to offer a detailed "analytical justification" for stating that as an opinion, which is, after all, all that I claimed it was.

I thought give and take was sort of the point of the forum. Am I mistaken?  

---

by: virgotex @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 16:46:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Statistics is not...

...an interpretive science, it is a tool for interpretting scientific data and research.  The 95% confidence interval simply means that if we ran the same poll 20 more times, 19 out of 20 would statistically fall within the 4.2% margin of error.  One out of 20 polls may likely yield a value way out in left field.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
That said, one can intentionally skew the outcome of a poll by multitudes of bias (i.e. demographics where the poll was conducted may not be representative of the population, which in this case was the state of Texas)

As a person who utilizes statistical methods regularly, I do appreciate this comment from Benjamin Disraeli, "There are three kinds of lies in this world; lies, damned lies and statistics.

Cheers.

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by: peacemonger @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 22:41:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Coincidentally...

...I believe that 23 percent of Texans are inbred morons.

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by: johnbinpt @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 18:04:37 PM CDT

I tend to agree,

  Having been through Texas a few times, I came away with the same feeling.  There are a lot of very nice a kind people I met, but there where quite a few that seemed like they moved from the WBC in Topeka Kansas.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 18:34:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Bush was NEVER officially FROM TEXAS!!!

Speaking as a NATIVE, of lil ole Corpus Christi - Bush and his ilk came to Texas and Florida for one reason only: THESE ARE STATES WITHOUT PERSONAL INCOME TAX!!!!

Rich idjits always claim residence here.  Bush and his twerpy family are YANKEES.  He can pretend to have a ranch to play on and all that - but basically Bush Sr. got some of his cronies to manipulate things so our voting boundaries were changed and we went from a Democratic state (HOW I MISS ANN RICHARDS!) to a Republican one.

My wife and I proudly display our Obama signs and all.  Even in our conservative neighborhood where we are the only "gays" on the street that are out.

But I refute the survey as well since it is a small sample group - and just flat out crazy, all the folks I know in my income range ($40K or so) all don't know anyone who even voted for Bush as gov or pres.... so if they called a bunch of rich idjits.

Either way, don't completely blame him on us - personally he should have never been able to get either job.

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by: Beejcctx @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 18:18:33 PM CDT

Texas voted Bush overwhelmingly for president,

so it's odd that you don't know anyone who voted for him.  Perhaps you live in one of the more liberal strongholds, like Austin?  I agree that one survey of 500 people has limited value.  Likewise, anecdotal experiences aren't particularly representative of anything beyond the life trajectory of the observer.  I doubt that 23% of the people surveyed really believe that Obama is Muslim.  Rather, I bet a good many of them responded that way because they know it's a great way to try to screw Obama.  But that's just my impression, so feel free to blow your nose on it or frame it, as best suits your mood.

Lurleen on Twitter

---

by: Lurleen @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 18:53:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Connecticut voted overwhelmingly for Lieberman

But I challenge you to find anywhere in my extensive history on blogs when I badmouthed or stereotyped Connecticut voters as a group for that.
 Don't get so defensive when people object to being stereotyped. You don't like it when people do it to you. Rather than renouncing stereotyping, you seem to be defending your use of it.
That's all I'm saying on this subject except that to say that you can't expect to make such blanket statements and people not be rankled by it. It's as unreasonable as when Bush expected us to just trust him while he tapped our phones.

---

by: Margaret @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 19:00:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

we're talking about 23% of 500 people who answered a survey.

and from that you conclude that i'm making sweeping statements?  hmmm.....

Lurleen on Twitter

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by: Lurleen @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 19:09:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hey c'mon

We Mainers don't want him, either! Ya think we don't also get a fair chunk of rich idjits grabbing up all the coastland up here? ;)

And I miss your Ann Richards, too... lived in TX when she ran against Claytie. What a delightful gift to the world she was.

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

---

by: Louise @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 19:17:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

From the moment I read that story...

...I knew that some of the left leaning blogs which I frequent would make an issue out of where the poll was conducted. I haven't seen any data but I suspect that the percentages of people who believe that tripe are similar in other red states and I doubt very much that the national average is much, if any, lower. What bothers me most is that it seems to be presented in a way that makes the issue of where the poll was taken rather than it was taken in the first place.
 The issue shouldn't be that Texans believe that Obama is a Muslim but that some pollster decided that being a Muslim would automatically make a difference in anyone's voting preference. So, essentially what has happened is that we have taken a story rife with religious and racial bigotry and instead made it about regional bigotry. I can say with near 100 percent certainty that one of the things that most drive my neighbors and collegues into the waiting jaws of the GOP is just this very phenomenon. Texans have been badmouthed long before Bush, (who is from Connecticut and Maine BTW), came along and I'm sure we will be long after the enormous damage that he has inflicted has healed. You can't lump people in Austin in with people in Lubbock or the valley and not expect someone to resent it. To do so unfairly will always piss people off, not endear them to us or persuade them to our cause. I can't count the times that I my efforts at making this state a little bluer or more tolerant have been wholly undermined because some of my progressive "allies", would rather use the state's population as a whipping boy or the butt of jokes instead of offering some encouragement or even just constructive criticism. You also can't expect people, Texan or otherwise to respond well when attacked for taking exception to being treated as none of the attackers would want to be treated. Don't be defensive because some may be upset over being unfairly stereotyped.
 New Yorkers have much more in common with Bostonians than residents of Ft. Worth have in common with people in Galveston and having lived in all of those places, I am very comfortable in saying that. This is the second largest state both in area and population and is widely regarded as the most diverse state as well. Why does it matter that TEXANS as opposed to any other group think Obama's a Muslim? Why does that matter when our society sees that question of his faith as even being salient? That's what the conversation should be about.
 Regional bigotry is more acceptable maybe but it's still bigotry and bigotry in all of it's forms is loathsome and unnacceptable. We don't need to be fussing about this because the only reward for our arguing among ourselves will be the laughter of the Facist theocons.

---

by: Margaret @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 18:53:33 PM CDT

well stated, MArgaret, better than I could for sure

I think had the poll been run across the entire country, or say the ten largest states, or some other group,and 23 was the highest percentage, then the fact that 23 percent of the Texas respondents would mean more.

But it was run by UT, and only featured Texas, yet folks dived on it and held it up, against no other such comparative data. The overwhelming inference was that other states, which of course had not been thus polled, would yield much lower figures.  

Of course, none of these people will take the trouble to compare the number of Texans who vote for Obama against that 23 percent of respondents in a n-550 sample, any more than they will consider your Connecticut example.  None of these people (I'm not talking about Pam, btw) will write a blog post about 6 million Texans  voting for Obama, which what is shaping up, btw, to be historic - first time in 60 years this many Texans have voted for a Dem presidential candidate.  That isn't going to get 10 seconds of play with these folks.  Because it feeds the narrative better to hold up the Texans who believe that Obama is a Muslim.
Hence, to them, those people are more important than the of us who do support and have worked their asses for Obama here.  Believing in us is too much of a challenge whereas believing in the idiots, who of course exist in other states too, isn't much work. Like the dude who feels free to make a joke about inbred Texans.  I understand that response: Last night when Pam ran that post about the married couple in NC who were voting for the first time in their lives, my first reaction was Jesus Christ how does an interracial couple with four or five kids in a southern state NOT VOTE EVER? Who are those North Carolinians anyway.

But those people were brave to let themselves be recorded and it was smart of the Obama campaign to use it, and progressives woudl be better advised to take Obama's lead and welcome those people into the fold, rather than follow the first ignorant response.  Unfortunately, progressives are like a lot of other folks when it comes to having their beliefs challenged.  For some it's too much work.

 

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by: virgotex @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 20:13:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Good replies both...thanks.

But that is like calling us all CALIFORNIANs!... Just wait and see how the vote goes on Prop 8 and it will divide itself right down the middle of the state.  

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

---

by: Orion45 @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 21:58:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Lord knows I have to deal with NC wingnuts

My state is full of them, and there are numerous posts in the archive about the hypocrites, fossils and bigots in the Tar Heel State. I'd love to know what percentage of my fellow residents still believe Obama is a Muslim.

---

by: Pam Spaulding @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 19:35:23 PM CDT

I'm sorry

I haven't won over all of my co-Texans yet.  Still working on it, it's taking longer than I thought. :)

---

by: Texas_Supergirl @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 20:10:36 PM CDT

judging TX by Ashley Todd and Tom Delay and their Governor

I think someone is p*ssing in the water supply.
The state that once had Molly Ivins and Ann Richards...how far you've fallen.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small

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by: peteyPornpig @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 21:42:16 PM CDT

Have to agree with mcc

As mcc said at the top of this thread, I don't believe for a minute that most of these folks (Texan or in the rest of the country) actually think that Obama is a Muslim.  They're just repeating it to try to discourage others from voting for him.  It's kind of like kids in 3rd grade saying, "Johnny eats boogers, pass it on!"  

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by: Heidi @ Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 22:48:19 PM CDT

Texas is not all bad

They are home to Electrology 3000.

Yay! Ouch! Yay! Ouch!

Dena

Cisgender. Because "Genetic" is so 2006.

---

by: Denabeth @ Fri Oct 31, 2008 at 03:02:39 AM CDT

Fox News

This thread snippet is taken from my (Texas) community Yahoo Group. The topic started as one member slammed another as a liberal for being helpful about placement of Trash Cans and Recycling bins, and quickly degraded into partisan trashing. Here you can see her defense of Joe the Plumber, clearly showing the impact of single source news channel misinformation:

Because I'm stating facts. Facts, by their very nature, can't be wrong.

Fair & Balanced.

Kristy

-----Original Message-----
From: Lola
To: Avery@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 9:09 pm
Subject: Re: [Avery] Placement of Recycling and Trash Carts

If you do not challenge your beliefs, if you do not hear what those that disagree with you have to say - how do you know you are not wrong?
Lola

-----Original Message-----
From: Kristy
To: Avery@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 7:15:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Avery] Placement of Recycling and Trash Carts

He's a guy who asked a reasonable question and got hammered by the media for it. He is studying to be a master plumber & in a few short months will have his license. He has currently been working under a master plumber & works under that plumber's license. It's legal. He has done it for years. Whether he owes taxes is irrelevant. He's crucified for a question. He didn't say he made that much money now. It was a "what if" question. I got my facts last night on Fox news. The ONLY network I will ever watch again.

Fair & Balanced.

Kristy

Steve

---

by: Stevious @ Sat Nov 01, 2008 at 04:55:46 AM CDT