New womb control advocacy: Personhood USA

Cosgrove's attempted amendment to VA HB-1677 was not that long ago

and Cosgrove was not the only person suggestion we enact legislation that would turn the US into something possibly worse than Ceacescu's Romania.

Had Cosgrove's attempted amendment managed to stay under the radar, women in VA who had miscarriages would have been under the microscope (as could women who never got pregnant) since the state defines fetus as the products of conception instead of using a medically appropriate and accurate definition.  The language with suggested revisions is at the bottom of a post I made almost 4 years ago (my apologies for the formatting in the post)

It's pretty sad that less than 3 years ago I had a post called forensic vagina inspectors.  

Not to put any more pressure on our President-elect but a successful Obama-Biden Administration is our only hope that the GOP will jettison the Christian Nationalist Coalition back to the fringes where they belong.

---

by: ol cranky @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 14:56:10 PM CST

And what about all the embryos in freezers?

Will we have to give them all social security numbers and insist that they all get implanted in someone?  Will we force people to implant those embryos?  What if someone creates a cloned or GM embryo, will those people insist that it be implanted and carried to term?

Luckily it failed, fertilization is not the right point to declare something a person, since they so rarely implant and start growing.  I think heartbeat is the right point to declare someone a person.

---

by: Imagine @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 15:20:02 PM CST

How about simple viability?

Declaring something to be a viable human being when it clearly isn't viable yet makes no sense whatever.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

---

by: QScribe @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 16:26:12 PM CST

[ Parent ]

well, birth is when to declare someone a member of the public

and a member of the public is a person.  So viability makes sense, but the only way to know if a fetus is viable is to give birth and then give it medical attention.  And at that point it's born anyhow.   Also, as medical science improves every day, incubators are starting to become more like artificial wombs, and soon embryos might not need to be in a womb ever.  So viability is effectively the same as the Personhood USA position, or at least it probably will be in a decade or so.

But there are other points that need to be recognized pre-personhood.  I think it's useful to have a point where we recognize that something is alive and has its own will as a living creature (heartbeat), and it's useful to have a point even before fertilization where a concept of a possible new person is believed (conceived) by the people who might have just created it, even if no fertilization happens (conception).  But fertilization is a dubious marker, not really useful for anything.

---

by: Imagine @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 20:51:26 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Birth Control

The Colorado initiative was simple and effective, birth control would be mostly prohibited.  The group is on the same wavelength as the former veep in training.

Pam,
J'aime ma Peau

---

by: Blonde Pam @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 15:37:57 PM CST

If I use birth control

am I denying a fertilized egg its right to exist? Is my husband a partner in my crime?

Will masturbation, which also denies a fertilized egg its existance, be considered a hostile act and/or a crime?

Gee, ya think maybe it's half a step from here to just out and out declaring anything other than heterosexual, unprotected sexual activities illegal?  

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners

Click here for DADT photobook

---

by: Louise @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 15:56:48 PM CST

The goal of the right is the Constitution being replaced by the bible,

  LGBT people are the first step, we are the easiest target. The right to life is the next target.  They wont punish the sheeple for their "sins" until they have enough power.  And they will fall for it.  The good thing is the youth in this country are not buying into their garbage.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

---

by: HappyCat @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 16:10:17 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Masturbation

Here in PA, there is a law on the books making masturbation a misdemeanor.  It's one of those archaic things from the 18th century that have never been repealed (assuming it was ever enforced in the first place.)  Who knows what will happen if the KKKristians ever get wind of it.  But I'll confess I'd get a kick out of being on the squad that goes around checking for violations.  My first assignment: college jocks.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

---

by: QScribe @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 16:30:32 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Amendment 48 Definition of Person

  This was the trial ballon for the Womb Control crowd.  1 Ballot Title: An amendment to the Colorado constitution defining the term "person" to include any human being from the moment of fertilization as "person" is used in those provisions of the Colorado constitution relating to inalienable rights, equality of justice, and due process of law.

 It went down in flames at the ballot box.  Although there was not much promotion for it that I saw.  

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

---

by: HappyCat @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 16:04:00 PM CST

according to newsweek

the fundies stayed away from that in droves because they realized they were overreaching without a sure fire chance to win in front of SCOTUS

Heavyweights like National Right to Life and Americans United for Life are not backing it. "There are other ways to protect human life that we focus on because we believe they are the most effective," says Clark Forsythe, president of Americans United for Life. Although pro-life leaders generally agree with Burton that life begins at fertilization, they fear a direct challenge to Roe v. Wade would ultimately be slapped down by the Supreme Court-still at least one vote shy of an anti-Roe majority-setting back the movement. "The established pro-life movement feels ... we should stop trying to overturn Roe because the time isn't right," says Richard Thompson, president of the Thomas More Law Center, a conservative public-interest firm that has advised Amendment 48. "Then there is this huge grassroots movement saying it's immoral not to try and save innocent lives."  Newsweek

---

by: ol cranky @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 18:03:56 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Any idea

of a list of the 17 states? Was unable to find...

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners

Click here for DADT photobook

---

by: Louise @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 16:15:29 PM CST

This is the result of Prop 8

They are emboldened by the win there, and since only one of the big groups put any effort into this, they are looking at how well it did without any support, and they are going to throw their new alliances into overdrive the next four years in order to undo what was done.

This is war, and the Reconstructionist movement that still remains unexposed for what it is -- an actual attempt at overturning the constitution of the United States, which is treason -- is taking this election as a win in the areas that matter most to them.

Because it is such.  They have subtle victories all over the place, and they see that the power they have is still strong and still growing.

They did outreach, of course.

They outfund us overall 10 to 1.

We are at war, all of us, and you don't even have to be an activist to be part of it. You don't have to attend rallies or marches, you don't have sign petitions, you don't have place yourself out to be a part of it.

All you have to do is live.

IT is time to treat this as the war it is, and go into offensive mode instead of defensive.

we need to run for congress and legislature and council, we need to be our own voice, for the allies themselves will not be able to do this since it is too risky for them.

We are at risk just by living.


http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

---

by: dyssonance @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 17:02:47 PM CST

Totally off topic, Pam

But Fred Phelps is planning to picket the funeral of Obama's grandmother!

Westboro Church to Picket Obama's Grandmother's Funeral

http://www.godhatesfags.com/wr...

Westboro Bantist Church

(WBC Chroniclls - Since 1955)

3701 SW 12'h St. Topeka, Kansas 66604 785-273-0325 www.godhatesfags.com

Religious Opinion and Bible Commentary on Current Events

Tuesday, November 4, 2008

NEWS RELEASE

WBC to picket the funeral of Madelyn Payne Dunham, - pursuant to the picketing laws of Hawaii or Kansas or, etc., wherever burial occurs, - in religious protest and warning to the living; to wit: "Prepare to meet thy God...

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

---

by: Fritz @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 17:32:43 PM CST

Sounds like a fun encounter with the Secret Service

What a moron (sorry for stating the obvious)

---

by: rupi3000 @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 20:44:23 PM CST

[ Parent ]

WBC

I'm sure Secret Security will keep those yahoos well away from any place the Obama family will be.

If the protest gets any publicity, maybe some of those California voters will feel embarrassed to be on the same side of an issue as the Phelps nuts.

---

by: Stephanie @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 21:01:07 PM CST

[ Parent ]

If Gov. Lingle or Mayor Hannemann is smart

They'll issue an Executive Order forbidding them entry into either the State of Hawaii or City and County of Honolulu on the grounds that these people are an immediate physical threat to the public safety. We don't like a bunch of strangers showing up here and saying ugly things about our ohana, and it WILL get violent if they do.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

---

by: Keori @ Sun Nov 09, 2008 at 00:48:47 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Handmaiden's tale, anyone?

Womb police, and later, not much later, loss of other women's rights?

Enforced gender roles next?

We are losing ground.

Jesus has been made into the enemy...

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

---

by: MauraHennessey @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 20:35:30 PM CST

This is the opportunity ...

Interestingly, none of the womb control amendments passed on Tuesday, but all the anti-gay ones did.  Interesting pattern.

I think, that this is the opportunity for the LGBT community, to win new allies:  we need to make the connection obvious: first they try to take away LGBT rights, now - energized and well funded - they are trying to take other people's freedom.  On the long run, voting against gay rights means to vote against everyone's freedom.

If they succeed, "witches" (and "faggots") will be burning in a few years....

---

by: rupi3000 @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 20:52:06 PM CST

Causes in Common

That's what Causes In Common is: "an organizing initiative of the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Community Center (the Center) in New York City, bringing together activists in the LGBT Liberation and Reproductive Justice Movements to work toward shared goals."

---

by: Imagine @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 21:20:18 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Ironic

Give rights to fertilized eggs/embryos then take them away if they turn out gay or lesbian...

o_O

Dena

Cisgender. Because "Genetic" (or non) is so 2006.

---

by: Denabeth @ Sun Nov 09, 2008 at 00:25:21 AM CST

Not ironic, same shit, different day

The Christian right: Because we believe in the right of every child to live until it's born. Further support is available pending verification of the correct race, socio-economic status, religion, gender, and sexual orientation. Thank you for calling, and have a blessed day!

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

---

by: Keori @ Sun Nov 09, 2008 at 00:52:10 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Got logic?

The logic of the "fertilized eggs are people" group for some reason brings back memories of a good friend of mine soph. year in college. He and his girlfriend being good Catholics wouldn't use birth-control because it was a sin. Somehow the fact that for good practicing Catholics, having pre-marital sex was also a sin and they could have had 2 sins for the price of one didn't enter their heads. Little Ricky turned 36 this year...

---

by: Canoe52 @ Sun Nov 09, 2008 at 02:53:27 AM CST

The Pro-Life Mantra

You're free to let big corporations wreck our environment with pollution. You're free to execute convicts, even if the evidence is inconclusive. You're free to stoke hatred and bigotry, encouraging violence against minorities. You're free to bomb the shit out of foreign countries, causing hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. You're free to follow economic & foreign policies which lead to millions of deaths from malnutrition and preventable disease each year. But if you allow women to kill their unborn kids we'll come for you - because we're Pro-Life.

(so, no hypocrisy there then!)

____________________________________
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.

---

by: tavdy79 @ Sun Nov 09, 2008 at 05:42:01 AM CST

Personhood and immigration

So, if a woman were to sneak across the border and have sex, she might be carrying a citizen of the USA, right? And you can't deport a citizen, right?

Get ready for an influx of illegal immigrants looking for sex.

---

Claim to fame: Posted first PHB diary to be demoted

---

by: cindik @ Sun Nov 09, 2008 at 14:43:54 PM CST

We are not amused

All I can say is that the fetus in my uterus right now was so mad upon my reading that this it kicked me. I think it knows that with rights come responsibilities, and it's not even responsible for breathing or eating on it's own yet!  As long as it's attached to me, I'm in charge.

---

by: rubyji @ Sun Nov 09, 2008 at 15:13:46 PM CST

Video from National Advocates for Pregnant Women

A couple of weeks ago, Feministing posted a wonderful video by the National Advocates for Pregnant Women on this issue.  You can find it at:

http://www.feministing.com/arc...

---

by: kcollett @ Sun Nov 09, 2008 at 18:42:49 PM CST