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The Christian Civic League of Maine's Mike Hein calls Pam's House Blend:
"a leading source of radical homosexual propaganda, anti-Christian bigotry, and radical transgender advocacy."

He is "praying that Pam Spaulding will "turn away from her wicked and sinful promotion of homosexual behavior." (CCLM's web site, 10/15/07)


Ex-gay "Christian" activist James Hartline on Pam:
"I have been mocked over and over again by ungodly and unprincipled anti-christian lesbians."
(from "Six Years In Sodom: From The Journal Of James Hartline," 9/4/2006, written from the "homosexual stronghold" of Hillcrest in San Diego).

"Pam is a 'twisted lesbian sister' and an 'embittered lesbian' of the 'self-imposed gutteral experiences of the gay ghetto.'" -- 9/5/2008



Peter LaBarbera of Americans for Truth Against Homosexuality heartily endorses the Blend, calling Pam:

A "vicious anti-Christian lesbian activist."
(Concerned Women for America's radio show [9:15], 1/25/07)

"A nutty lesbian blogger."
(MassResistance radio show [16:25], 2/3/07)


Pam's House Blend always seems to find these sick f*cks. The area of the country she is in? The home state of her wife? I know, they are everywhere. Pam just does such a great job of bringing them out into the light.
--Impeach Bush


who monitors yours Bevis ?? Just thought I would drop you a line,so the rest of your life is not wasted.
--"Joe"

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This And That: A Sampling Of Post-Mortems & Stories On Prop 8

by: Autumn Sandeen

Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 12:00:00 PM EST



Update:I needed to add a commentary from the Los Angeles Times to this sampling. It's from a black lesbian with a somewhat different take on Prop 8 than Pam's expressed. Below the fold, it's the last piece listed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As it's been mentioned in our blog, here at PHB and Bilerico we've been discussing race and Prop 8, as well as faith and Prop 8. To illustrate that there's a variety of post-mortems and stories on this from a really broad spectrum of perspectives, here's a sampling of some of those from a wide variety of sources:

* Michele McGinty at BeliefNet: It looks like the black vote saved Prop. 8 - Quote:

Now, will criticism of the vote constitute racism?

Hey, at least they can't blame the conservative Christian Republicans :-)

* Fernando Espuelas at CNN: Commentary: Latinos should see gay marriage a civil right - Quote:

Once you start the process of taking away other peoples' fundamental rights -- like food and water in a jail cell, or the right to drive and listen to whatever music you like -- you must ask yourself where to draw the line, and who will draw it? What -- and whose -- rights will be next on the chopping block?

As Martin Luther King Jr. said, "Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere." You'd think that as Latinos, proud and strong and willing to fight for our own rights,- we'd refuse to turn against the "punier kid," wouldn't you?

That we might in fact stand up for that kid, tell the bullies to back off, the same way we told the bullies of racism and "the real America" to take a hike -- and in the process carried Obama to triumph.

* Media release from the Roman Catholic Diocese of Sacramento: Former Catholic Bishop of Salt Lake City Decries Religious Bigotry in Political Ad; Defends LDS Role in California Ballot Initiative Protecting Traditional Marriage - Quote:

"I call upon the supporters of same-sex marriage to live by their own words--and to refrain from discrimination against religion and to exercise tolerance for those who differ from them. I call upon them to accept the will of the people of California in the passage of Proposition 8."

* Jon Stewart at The Daily Show:

* Focus On The Family: Success in California--Traditional Marriage Restored! - Quote:

[W]hat you helped achieve on Tuesday night goes far beyond upholding the sanctity of marriage in California. It also:

... helps protect millions of children from radical indoctrination in the homosexual lifestyle. In Massachusetts, legalized same-sex "marriage" quickly became the pretext for redefining marriage in the classroom, and it had already started in California, too.

... safeguards religious liberty in our most populous state. Wherever same-sex "marriage" has taken hold, religious freedom has begun to crumble. In Massachusetts, for example, Catholic Charities was forced to shut down its adoption agency because of their refusal to do gay adoptions.

I'm so pleased to be able to report to you the critical role that Focus on the Family played in securing this milestone victory. From the earliest strategic discussions ... to the monumental task of gathering a million-plus signatures ... to the campaign itself, Focus on the Family has been integrally involved.

* Ingrid Taylar, About.com Guide to San Francisco: How Prop 8 Skews the Initiative Process - The title is pretty self-explanatory.

[Lots more below the fold.]

Autumn Sandeen :: This And That: A Sampling Of Post-Mortems & Stories On Prop 8
* CBS News: Prop 8 Protests Continue -

* Inland Empire Press-Enterprise: Prop. 8 signs formed into swastika at Riverside church - Quote:

Dozens of signs supporting Prop.8, the initiative to define marriage as only between a man and a woman in the California Constitution, were found Thursday morning arranged in the form of a swastika on the front lawn of a Roman Catholic church in Riverside, church and police officials say.

A parish secretary came to work Thursday morning and found 40 to 50 signs formed in the shape of a swastika at Our Lady of Perpetual Help at 5250 Central Ave., said John Andrews, spokesman for the Roman Catholic Diocese of San Bernardino.

* Michele McGinty at BeliefNet: Evidently, gays do blame blacks for the failure of Prop. 8 - Quote:

Listen, you guys on the left may not like it but the government has the right to set the terms for marriage. In California that's done through a ballot initiative. It doesn't matter that you think it's wrong, it's been this way throughout history. Appealing to the founding fathers is ludicrous (as some on the left have done) because if they knew that this was going to be an issue, they would have been explicit in stating that marriage was between a man and woman. They would never have thought otherwise.

* OneNewsNow/Associated Press: Homosexuals seek to overturn marriage amendment - OneNewsNow rewrites another AP headline tor replace "gay" with "homosexual."

* OneNewsNow: Support for marriage remains steadfast -  Quote:

A researcher at a top conservative think tank in Washington says although the election of Barack Obama as president may signal a further left-ward political drift in the U.S., the success of ballot initiatives on Tuesday banning same-sex "marriage" indicates there is still widespread support for traditional marriage.

...Tom Messner, a visiting researcher at the Heritage Foundation, says attempts to repeal DOMA and legalize same-sex "marriage" threaten religious liberty.

"Once courts conclude that traditional marriage is a form of discrimination or bigotry, anyone who continues to believe that will be the equivalent of a bigot," he explains.

"They'll be considered to harbor irrational prejudices -- and that's really going to lead to three types of growing burdens in the institution or individual who continues to believe that marriage is [between] a man and a woman."

* Joe Solmonese of the HRC at Bilerico: You can't take this away from me - One gets as much interesting take from the comments as one does from the Op-Ed. From the Op-Ed:

As free and equal human beings, we were born with the right to equal families. The courts did not give us this right--they simply recognized it. And although California has ceased to grant us marriage licenses, our rights are not subject to anyone's approval. We will keep fighting for them. They are as real and as enduring as the love that moves us to form families in the first place. There are many roads to marriage equality, and no single roadblock will prevent us from ultimately getting there.

And yet there is no denying, as we pick ourselves up after losing this most recent, hard-fought battle, that we've been injured, many of us by neighbors who claim to respect us. We see them in the supermarkets, on the sidewalk, and think "how could you?"  

By the same token, we know that we are moving in the right direction. In 2000, California voters passed Proposition 22 by a margin of 61.4% to 38.6%. On Tuesday, fully 48% of Californians rejected Proposition 8. It wasn't enough, but it was a massive shift. Nationally, although two other anti-marriage ballot measures won, Connecticut defeated an effort to hold a constitutional convention ending marriage, New York's state legislature gained the seats necessary to consider a marriage law, and FMA architect Marilyn Musgrave lost her seat in Congress. We also elected a president who supports protecting the entire community from discrimination and who opposes discriminatory amendments.

From the comments:

Rebecca Juro - Joe, I'm not going to bash you or HRC here (that stuff's all been said and to rehash it here would be redundant). However, I will point out one thing that I believe strikes to the very heart of the issues so many of us have with you and HRC:

"But make no mistake: I do not think we have to audition for equality. Rather, I believe that each and every one of us who has been hurt by this hateful ballot measure, and each and every one of us who is still fighting to be equal, has to confront the neighbors who hurt us. We have to say to the man with the Yes on 8 sign--you disrespected my humanity, and I am not giving you a pass. I am not giving you a pass for explaining that you tolerate me, while at the same time denying that my family has a right to exist. I do not give you permission to say you have me as a "gay friend" when you cast a vote against my family, and my rights."

Take this statement and apply it to ENDA and the right of transpeople to be protected in the workplace instead of marriage and you'll have a very clear picture why transfolks and our allies feel the way we do about you folks.

Thanks, Joe. You said it as well or perhaps even better than any of us ever could.

~~~~~

Monica Helms - I agree with Becky. It doesn't feel so good when others are trying to invalidate YOUR humanity. Remember this moment in time, because when ENDA comes back, you don't want to be eating these words. Laptops are hard to digest.

I got a fifth of Southern Comfort for you. Drink it in good health.

* Patrick Range McDonald at L.A. Weekly: Queer Town: Human Rights Campaign's Shameless Spin - Quote:

So far, HRC hasn't won a single anti-gay marriage ballot measure, and there's been over 20 losses. A few years ago, Arizona voted one down, but a gay Republican named Steve May really ran that winning campaign. So what's the deal with the email?

To be honest, I think Solmonese was trying to spin the gay community away from last night's debacle for the movement, and, as a major player in that movement, he didn't want us looking at him or the HRC. Solmonese also wanted me to keep donating, which was asked of me at the very bottom of the email. It makes a thinking man start to wonder when enough is enough.

One thing is clear, though. The gay rights movement needs to take a serious look at itself. Gay activists, who I mostly admire, can't keep blaming evangelical Christians for every loss. It's like the Boston Red Sox blaming the New York Yankees for being too good all of those years and not doing anything about it. Someone in the front office needs to get fired, the line up needs to be shuffled, new players need to be brought in, and we need to start winning a few championships. Pronto!

* GetReligion.org: The evolution of a story - Talks about the back story of why LGBT people are so angry at the LDS church.

* Andrew Sullivan of The Atlantic: Mormons vs Gays - Quote:

"[G]ay people and their families now have every right to highlight the Mormon church as an enemy of civil rights and of gay people everywhere.

* Washington Post/Associated Press: Utah Boycott Urged After Calif. Vote - Quote:

Utah's growing tourism industry and the star-studded Sundance Film Festival are being targeted for a boycott by bloggers, gay rights activists and others seeking to punish the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for its aggressive promotion of California's ban on gay marriage.

It could be a heavy price to pay. Tourism brings in $6 billion a year to Utah, with world-class skiing, spectacular red-rock country and the film festival founded by Robert Redford among popular tourist draws.

* Salt Lake Tribune: Thousands protest LDS stance on same-sex marriage - Quote:

More than 3,000 people swarmed downtown Salt Lake City to march past the LDS temple and church headquarters, protesting Mormon involvement in the campaign for California's Proposition 8. The measure, which defined marriage as exclusively between a man and a woman, passed this week.

...A sea of signs in City Creek Park, where the march began, screamed out messages including, "I didn't vote on your marriage," "Mormons once persecuted . . . Now persecutors," and "Jesus said love everyone." Others read, "Proud of my two moms" and "Protect traditional marriage. Ban divorce."

...Across the street on North Temple, a group of about 50 - the majority not LDS members - defended the church's support of the successful ballot measure. "The people voted," they shouted at the protesters. "YOU are intolerant!"

Others screamed: "Marriage is between a man and woman. You'll never be a man and woman!"

* Pollster.com: DiCamillo: Polling on Prop. 8 - California's Same Sex Marriage Ban - Pollster Mark DiCamillo, director of The Field Poll in California, discusses relevant polling of Catholics regarding Prop 8.

* Associated Press: Calif. win emboldens coalition of religious groups - Quote:

Energized by a comeback win, conservative activists want to apply the same formula they used to outlaw same-sex marriage in California to prevent other states from recognizing gay unions and President-elect Barack Obama from expanding the rights of gays and lesbians.

Leaders of the successful Proposition 8 campaign say an unusual coalition of evangelical Christians, Mormons and Roman Catholics built a majority at the polls Tuesday by harnessing the organizational muscle of churches to a mainstream message about what school children might be taught about gay relationships if the ban failed.

Same-sex marriage bans also won in Arizona and Florida. But in putting together the California victory, the coalition overcame opposition from the state's political establishment and assumptions about how voters in the famously tolerant state would respond to taking away the rights the state's highest court granted this spring.

* College News: Prop. 8 deals major blow to civil rights - Quote:

We have the first black president. While the night was a historic win for minorities, it also saw another group of minorities dealt with a major blow in California with the passage of Proposition 8, an anti-gay marriage initiative on the ballot in Tuesday's election.

President-Elect Barack Obama won California overwhelmingly on Tuesday. But his victory brought an overwhelming number of African-American voters to the polls, who are generally seen as the reason Prop. 8 passed.

...As a black gay man, this troubled me two fold. On one end, I'm supposed to be joyous and ecstatic over this momentous win. On the other end, I'm sad that this wasn't a victory for gays and lesbians in California. Like anyone else, I want marriage rights to extend to us all.

But unlike a lot of stories I've seen, I refuse to blame blacks or Obama. However, it is time to get real...

* Los Angeles Times: Gays, blacks divided on Proposition 8; For many African Americans, it's not a civil rights issue. - Quote:

For Trebor Healey, a 46-year-old gay man from Glendora, Tuesday's election was bittersweet.

He was thrilled that the nation elected its first African American president. But he was disappointed that black voters, traditionally among the most reliably liberal in the state, voted overwhelmingly to ban same-sex marriage.

He understands that there are differences between the civil rights battles of blacks and gays: For one thing, he notes, gay people have a much easier time blending in. Still, he says, he thinks it's sad that "people do not equate one civil rights struggle with another."

Many black voters didn't see it that way...

* Jasmyne A. Cannick at the Los Angeles Times: No-on-8's white bias; The right to marry does nothing to address the problems faced by both black gays and black straights. Quote -

I am a perfect example of why the fight against Proposition 8, which amends the state Constitution to ban same-sex marriage, failed to win black support.

I am black. I am a political activist who cares deeply about social justice issues. I am a lesbian. This year, I canvassed the streets of South Los Angeles and Compton, knocking on doors, talking politics to passers-by and working as I never had before to ensure a large voter turnout among African Americans. But even I wasn't inspired to encourage black people to vote against the proposition.

Why? Because I don't see why the right to marry should be a priority for me or other black people. Gay marriage? Please. At a time when blacks are still more likely than whites to be pulled over for no reason, more likely to be unemployed than whites, more likely to live at or below the poverty line, I was too busy trying to get black people registered to vote, period; I wasn't about to focus my attention on what couldn't help but feel like a secondary issue...

Obviously, there's lots more out there, so this is obviously just a sampling. And, I don't believe the discussion is even close to over -- I believe we're going to be hearing about Prop 8, and what Prop 8's passage means, for years to come.

.

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HRC's Joe Solmonese gives same old spin
I tried to post my thoughts on the statement made by Joe Solmonese on TBP But since Bil Browning is the one approving the post and he's budss with Joe he's acting as Joe's online body guard and deny anyone's posting he doesn't like mine was one of the many he deleted. So I'll see if I have any freedom here to express my thoughts. In Joe's statement he says he's encouraged and try to put a happy face on the situation.  I on the other hand feel it's time for JOE TO GO !! He's lost the trust of ever GBLT organization out there and has done nothing to justify his 250,000 dollar salary.

I also think we could have won the day on prop 8. if the black voters would have been made to understand that it has nothing to do with schools or children. Those kind of Ads run by the yes on 8 were never answered. Another thing that bother me is the amount of money HRC poured into the prop 8 fight. I sure never saw them pouring this kind of money into eduction on an Inclusive ENDA.... I guess that's becuase they only talk the talk on ENDA they never do walk the walk except whenit comes to an issue that matters to them. I'm sick of HRC and they're double talk. and I'm tired of Bil browning deny every voice to speak on TBP. My post there were creditcal of Joe yes but they weren't improper of abusive in any way.

Sincerely
Brandi Parker
SWVA Rep Equality Va  


The Bilerico Project


-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
HRC = Lame
What does HRC do besides put out press releases, raise zillions of dollars in high-priced big budget dinners for rich white gay men (no trannies please!), and spend zillions of dollars sending me one of those GD equal sign stickers every other month?  They are just the most pointless group.  I'm hoping for another March on Washington...it is time to make our political voices heard in a big way again.  But if HRC is one of the managers of it, I'm sure it will end up one big mess of merchandising and circuit parties.

[ Parent ]
HRC is not your enemy
Don't send them money if you don't like their work.
Start being your own advocacy organization.

[ Parent ]
I would say...Strengthen PFLAG...all you can..

This is the only truly all-Inclusive organization...It even includes ME! A fully het friend. $$$ to them, they do wonderful local civil work and support teens and families.

If Joe doesn't get a fully inclusive ENDS passed, DOMA and DADT repealed withing 2 years HE IS OUT!!! 



It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.


[ Parent ]
PFLAG
If one goes off the title alone it is not fully inclusive.  What about the bisexual and transgendered people not included in the title?

I am fully behind the idea of PFLAG, in case that's in question.


[ Parent ]
I will look into it...
I'm the head of a PFLAG chapter here in NC. I know we and every other PFLAG are fully inclusive of the B's and T's. I suspect the lack of B&T in the name has to do with the founder, who is the parent of a gay man. But I can assure you we are a inclusive organization.

...... Next time someone gives you a hard time for being LGBT... just ask them if they are unenlightened...or closeted

[ Parent ]
HRC is not your enemy
Well Karen their certinly not our friend either. They continue to spout about how they are doing so much for the entire GBLT community and how they helped Obama get elected what crap !! They weren't even supporting Obama in the beginning they crabbed onto his coat tails after their Gay only canidate bit the dust. We will get an Inclusive ENDA and believe me HRC will wanta act like they were instramental in making it happen when we already known the Obama/Biden Ticket is supportive and we Don't need HRC mucky things up. They are so "ten mins ago"  as a GBLT Organisation. There's others who have just as much access to the right people in Washington and who ARE truely All Inclusive.

Sincerely
Brandi Parker
SWVA Rep Equality Va


[ Parent ]
I meant in terms of the Prop 8 outcome
I was speaking purely about this Prop 8 outcome.  Since we're in this "blame" stage.  I just want to keep pointing people towards the real enemy in this...the people who voted to ELIMINATE civil rights.

Good  luck with your efforts across the country.


[ Parent ]
If HRC is involved, than I am not,
 I sent money to HRC before the ENDA Mess, I spread their word of inclusion. I was dumped by HRC.  I am dumping HRC. I ask others to do the same.  The sooner the HRC is out of power, the sooner we can unite.  

HRC lost my trust in them in 2007, they will not regain my trust. And I know I am not alone.

I will continue to fight for all LGBT rights, but if HRC is involved than I am out. Plain and Simple.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.


[ Parent ]
If HRC is involved, than I am not
HappyCat  your not the only person I've heard that feels that way in fact I'm right there with you. I have and continue to work for equality. I like you will be be invloved in anything HRC is a part of earlier this year while I was working as a Campaign Coordinator for the Obama/Biden Ticket. I organized a voter registration booth at our pride festival and had some organizor from DC send me a box full of HRC for Obama sticker. He'd asked me to give them out at the pride fesival. I threw the whole box in the trash it must have been 5000 stickers. I wasn't about to help spread their propaganda.

HRC is so lost its way their so consumed with their black tie dinners and their political partys they have forgotten what they were send to Washington to do, they've lost the vision. I'm of the opinion that there need to be a clean slate at HRC JOE NEEDS TO GO !! ad along with him every board member that has supported him needs to go as well.

Brandi Parker
SWVA Rep Equality Va  


[ Parent ]
NoOnProp8 still asking for money
Are they addicted to fundraising or the equality for all cause ?  What more can they do or not do ?

Same-Sex Marriage is good for the economy.

[ Parent ]
Voting may be over...
...but the prop 8 battle continues.  I believe that the rule of law will prevail and prop 8 will be ruled in court(s) as an improper/invalid initiative if not unconstitutional.
http://www.aclu.org/lgbt/relat...
"A major purpose of the constitution is to protect minorities from majorities. Because changing that principle is a fundamental change to the organizing principles of the constitution itself, only the legislature can initiate such revisions to the constitution," added Elizabeth Gill, a staff attorney with the ACLU of Northern California.

Peace.  


[ Parent ]
oh?
Sorry.  They'll have to go a long ass way to make up for doing everything they could to not work on my behalf 3 times, before I ever consider them anything but an enemy.

They have 15 years to make up for.  Three removals and blockages.

They are my enemy.  They just say it nicer than some.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
Joe Solomese and HRC
As far as I'm concerned HRC sold out Florida and Arizona LGBT's. I will NEVER support HRC again.

I am furious that HRC directed $3.4M to California, a measly $120,000 to Florida and a paltry $50,000 to Arizona. I guess HRC didn't feel that those of us who live in Florida and our lesbian/gay sisters and brothers in Arizona are worth fighting for.

Perhaps I should be happy that voters in Florida have decided I'm a second-class citizen. Joe Solomese and HRC have deemed me a 0.035-class citizen.



You can lead a fool to knowledge, but you can't make him think.  


[ Parent ]
other orgs allocated limited resources similarly.
the reason was that CA had real, existing rights to defend.  and also, as the 7th largest economy in the world and a huge population, protecting marriage there would have had a significant positive effect on the rest of the country.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.


[ Parent ]
Jon Stewart nails it, as usual.
The upsode is that this fight has become a rallying cry for a new LBGT generation.  

Yep, Gen Y will set this right!
We've seen the hallmarks of persecution that'll led to genocides. It starts by taking of rights away little by little. C'mon look at other states, lgbt people there can't even adopt!

[ Parent ]
GEN Y ...my a***...

I was born DURING WWII....and I will fight H8 to reversal.

 



It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.


[ Parent ]
Perhaps California ought to honour
Dr Wilhelm Stutkart, author of the Nuremberg Laws, since the people of the state seem to be emulating them between the attempts at the Briggs Amendment, and now the passage of Prop 8

Or they should admit the de facto situation and merge with Utah, since obviously the LDS church is now controlling California Civil Rights Law..

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid


[ Parent ]
In Your Dreams Bud!
"I call upon them to accept the will of the people of California in the passage of Proposition 8."

I, for one, will never accept fundamental rights being decided upon by a tyrannical majority of voters.


If All Civil Rights
were decided by a majority of voters, then African Americans might still be sitting in the back of the bus, I would have graduated from a segregated high school, and there would be few if any legal interracial marriages.

[ Parent ]
Kindly remind the President-Elect of this...
..and also remind him of a topic from his constitutional law class: the farce of "separate but equal".

"More than half of modern culture depends on what one shouldn't read." -- Oscar Wilde, The Importance of Being Earnest

[ Parent ]
A bit of historical perspective on Mormon discrimination
Only a few years ago, Mormons did not believe that Black people could be saved, or that they even had souls.

Now, with their media campaign they influenced black voters to deny us the rights that the Mormons opposed for black Americans.

In th last century, the Mormons systematically drove out the Irish Catholics of Utah, who were already there when the Mormons arrived, just as they drove out most of the Irish Catholics of Beaver Island Michigan when they settled there for a while.

Now, the Roman Catholic Church makes common cause with the Church whose businesses have most favoured status in their state and who even used violence to extinguish Catholicism from Utah.

Theocracy is dangerous and truly un-American, and the Mormons manage a theocracy....

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid


Excellent. These were my thoughs at BTB:
What I wish No on 8 had clearly delineated, and what all anti-gay religious groups refuse to understand, is that the legal definition and the religious definition of marriage are not the same thing at all. Most words in the dictionary have several definitions. The language of the ruling on legal marriage did not attempt to redefine religious marriage in any way whatsoever. Anyone who has actually read and comprehended the ruling understands that.

Religious groups protesting the legal definition of marriage is essentially a power-grab. A chance to erase the line between church and state, because of unfortunate semantics. And once that falls, watch for a whole bunch of other things that the 52% hold dear to fall as well. This is the way the argument should have been framed, in my opinion, and with the same fear tactics. It was naive to think we could win with love and flowery commercials. We also need to loudly re-claim our patriotism from those who pervert the meaning of the word. We are taxpaying citizens. Their dialogue doesn't discuss us like we are their sons and daughters, but as if we were illegal aliens.

The Mormon, Catholic and Christian churches chose to make a deeply un-American assault on personal liberties, and no religious group should have the right to do that, if we indeed value religious freedom in this country. It is a fatal error in California law that it is even possible. This is a very dangerous precedent. Every truly patriotic right-leaning libertarian, atheist, Jew, Buddhist, Hindi, etc. might have rightly felt a chill running down their spine after what happened in California, if they understood this. What rights is a religious group other than your own going to take away next?

____________________

Donate to Carmen's Place


[ Parent ]
Act Like a Bigot, then you're a Bigot.
...Tom Messner, a visiting researcher at the Heritage Foundation, says attempts to repeal DOMA and legalize same-sex "marriage" threaten religious liberty.

"Once courts conclude that traditional marriage is a form of discrimination or bigotry, anyone who continues to believe that will be the equivalent of a bigot," he explains.

Sorry Tommy, but when you spout falsehoods and venom against a group of people and seek to deny them the rights and protections everyone else enjoys, don't be suprised when you're labled a bigot.

If that hurts your self-image as an "I love everyone Christian", too bad!  Take a good look in the mirror and realize what you really, truly are inside.


Good Compilation AUTUMN....
Got to run to demonstration right now though. MORE LATER.

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.


I Always Thought That...
I was a better person because I was gay.  If I was not gay, I would have probably been racist and sexist.  My dad comes from Kentucky, and the family has always been extremely racist.  If I was not gay, I would not have any reason to question those beliefs.  This makes me sad though that others may not have had the transcendent experience that made me a better person.  I blame the Prop. 8 supporters--not any race, yet people tell me that I am niave because I am not focusing on race.  How dare you!  I will support the civil rights of all, and that does not happen overnight.  We need to make our best arguments and educate.  Racism is based on fear and ignorance.  I know a better gay community than the one that is pushing racist ideas.  We will get nowhere with such ideas.

Exactly
Best way I've seen it put, and I've seen it put a lot of ways this past week. To blame the African-American community as a whole for the passage of Prop 8 is, frankly, ridiculous, and it makes all of us look really, really bad, and that's exactly what the haters want. We need to cut this blame game out right now and focus on education and outreach. A majority voted for Prop 8. There's nothing we can do to make that untrue. What we need to do is get out and fight the untruths spread by the Yes On 8 people to reverse the perceptions of us that caused people to vote this way, as well as reach out to people who would be willing to lend there support in the legal arena and the public eye. Pointing fingers does none of that.  

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. ~ Isaac Asimov

[ Parent ]
This is rich. . .
"I call upon the supporters of same-sex marriage to live by their own words--and to refrain from discrimination against religion and to exercise tolerance for those who differ from them. I call upon them to accept the will of the people of California in the passage of Proposition 8."
-----------------------------------------------------------

And I call upon the California Diocese(s) to register their churches with the Child Predator Listings. Just like any other citizen who commits a crime, the Church shouldn't be expecting more tolerance than they offer others.

I also call upon the Church to voluntarily surrender it's tax-exempt status. Since it openly advocated the removal of the constitutional rights of another group, it no longer should seek the shelter of tax breaks for political activity. The Constitution is not an extension of the patriarchal, authoritarian makeup of the Church.  


^5!
The Yes on 8 Coalition was one of the Bigamy Cult marrying the Pedophile Cult.  Marriage isn't for Adam and Steve, it's for Adam and Eve ... and Shirley, and Charlotte, and Laura, and Adam's other 17 wives.  Or for Father Adam and his 12-year-old altar boy, Steve.  That Adam-and-Steve combo: A-OK!

[ Parent ]
Jasmyne's link broken
n/t

Thanks dale! n/t
n/t

[ Parent ]
Fixed the link above too.

For some reason, I left the link slot empty in the HTML language for the article ... D'oh!

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
Jasmyne Cannick
I can never understand why Jasmyne Cannick feels as though the struggle for civil rights in the black community and the struggle for civil rights in the LGBT community are mutually exclusive, and that you must choose between one or the other.  It seems that she believes that you can't be pro-black and pro-gay at the same time.  She identifies as a black lesbian, but you wonder if she's segmented her brain into its black parts and its lesbian parts in such a way that the two never meet.  Reading her work always makes me a little annoyed before it eventually makes me sad for her.

"There are two kinds of people in this world -- the kind who separate the world into two kinds of people, and those who don't."  -- Gloria Steinem

her logic also fall flat,
since marriage was already available when she was canvassing, so it wasn't like anyone was asking her to divert resources to get it.  if she can't see that putting the civil rights of a minority to the vote is wrong, she's got a screw loose.  i guess she doesn't realize that she just lost a slice of her own citizenship.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.


[ Parent ]
I was wondering
how is she different from the "gay Republicans"?

[ Parent ]
I Spoke to Missionaries Today
I encourage people to talk to missionaries and tell them about the hurt that came from church actions.  I did that today.  I made them understand that I am a person who was affected by this, and maybe they will at least think about what happens in the future.  THey were honest when they said this: "Anyone who does not follow God's law should not be treated equally in our society.  Civil rights are for the rigtheous."  

They also ignored the actions of the church towards African-Americans.


That's fine!
"Anyone who does not follow God's law should not be treated equally in our society.  Civil rights are for the rigtheous."

Just as long as they don't mind being (rightfully) tossed into the same category as scientologists, and treated like the laughing stock Tom Cruise has became.  

Plus I don't see anything righteous about being married to multiple teenage girls, or wearing "special" undies.  That's just scary, and silly.


[ Parent ]
It's a long, long way to Tehran. . .
They were honest when they said this: "Anyone who does not follow God's law should not be treated equally in our society.  Civil rights are for the righteous."

You should have told them to hop on their bicycles and peddle back to Iran where they belong.  


[ Parent ]
I'd ask them
to cite the US Constitutional article that states that civil rights are for the religious.  I'd also ask them to show me where in the COnstitution "religious" miraculously is defined as Mormon.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.


[ Parent ]
Wrong Country
I thought the Caliban were from Afghanistan?

____________________________________
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.


[ Parent ]
True
The Taliban are from Afghanistan, but they aren't in power at the moment and Iran is a bonified theocracy.

[ Parent ]
Yikes
If religion is an opiate, then it's time for these junkies to go cold turkey.

[ Parent ]
Angered, hurt and fighting on
I'm pissed. So many are hurt by Prop Hate and other legislated bigotry. It does not matter what our history has been against others, to those now injured by these fresh stings.

Where history does matter, however, is in recognizing what works to overcome legal bigotry. And singling out one religious denomination, just like singling out one race for retaliation, does not strike me as the soundest strategy.

A general economic boycott, among other things, does make sense, particularly in such precarious economic times.

Which state's voters actually produced these results? Target those states. Which Dow Jones companies refuse to provide benefits to civil partners? Include them, nationwide.

Numerous churches have demonstrated bigotry against gays and singling out the Mormons is itself a flawed way as it assumes every Mormon supported the bigotry and excuses millions of non-Mormon bigots.

Define days for GLBT citizens and others who support them as 'sick-in' days. Specific company products or services being boycotted longterm by consumers also can build a lasting erosion of economic support that will alarm investors.

California, Arkansas and other states who have passed anti-gay measures in recent years deserve economic targeting by all consumers, not just tourists. For example, WalMart and Perdue are Arkansas-based corporations, so highlight them as targets unless they move their corporate headquarters. That'll make other companies more reluctant to set-up HQs in gay-unfriendly states.

Microtargeting of smaller in-state regions also could be more effective, so businesses in gay-friendly cities don't get hurt.

Any and every economically disruptive activity deserves our full consideration, but history does suggest that targeting by faith or ethnicity heightens conflicts instead of winning them.

Just my two cents...

And I must add: to the ignorants and the haters, you are a disgrace to humanity on a par with any supremacist hate group. Grow a freaking brain because the way you mask your sexual insecurities isn't fooling people who already possess one.


Quote
"I don't want a man and a man to be married," (Solomon)Brown said. "When I have kids, I don't want them to see that."

This quote was included in a CNN article which is from an African-American 18 year old from San Jose, CA.  He indicated that he and the majority of African-Americans that voted for Prop 8 did so for "religious" reasons.

I believe I'd respond to him by saying "If you feel the driving need to discriminate against me because your religion demands it, fine.  You have my pity.  Just don't have the gall to equate my relationships to some porno video you have to keep hidden from your kids eyes thank you very much."


I'd ask him
if he's okay with seeing two women going at it. Because that okay--as long as it's for entertainment purposes only.

[ Parent ]
Solomon Brown, and those like you,
Banning Same-Sex Marriage is not going to make Gay and Lesbian couples disappear.  

This is the part of the Fundies that really does crack me up.  There are only two ways not to have your child see Same-Sex couples.

#1 Murder all Same-Sex couples.  Very much against the Law.

#2 Keep your children locked indoors all their life and away from society.

Some choices you on the right have.  

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.


[ Parent ]
Serious Idea
For the next election, we should start a drive for a proposition to ban Mormon marriages in the state.  We could get plenty of signatures to have it placed on the ballot.  We could use deceptive ads like showing a man with 20 wives (even though Mormons no longer do that) or do some really nasty things with the ads.  Now, I do not really want to ban their marriages, but it would teach a lesson--how our laws should protect the minority.

Again, I have nothing against Mormons--they should be free to live as they choose, but they put more effort and money in 8 than anyone. We need to let them know what they did was wrong.


One Problem
 They don't believe they did anything wrong, they believe they are doing god's will.  

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

[ Parent ]
I had to find the article,
 From CBS2,This from a Catholic Prick,

"I am grateful to the Catholic Community of Los Angeles for your commitment to the institution of marriage as fashioned by God and to work with such energy to enshrine this divine plan into our state's Constitution," he said.

Mahony said support for Prop. 8 had nothing to do with discrimination against gays.

"Proposition 8 is not against any group in our society," he said. "Its sole focus is on preserving God's plan for people living upon this earth throughout time. The Catholic Church understands that there are people who
choose to live together in relationships other than traditional marriage. All of their spiritual, pastoral and civil rights should be respected, together with their membership in the church."

And this from a Mormon Dickhead,

The Mormon church in Salt Lake City issued a statement denying that the church's opposition to same-sex marriage has anything to do with bigotry.

"It is important to understand that this issue for the church has always been about the sacred and divine institution of marriage -- a union between a man and a woman," according to the statement. "Allegations of
bigotry or persecution made against the church were and are simply wrong. The church's opposition to same-sex marriage neither constitutes nor condones any kind of hostility toward gays and lesbians.

"Even more, the church does not object to rights for same-sex couples regarding hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of churches."

 They are injecting their religious beliefs on the rest of the country, and people are stupid enough to go along with this garbage.  There is no proving them wrong so no sense on trying to do that.  What needs to be done if have them treated like the political action groups they are and tax them.


If I make sense? it was quite by accident.


[ Parent ]
Gays should do it
even though this will not have any legal effect, because it is unconstitutional (if it passes), I think it will send a signal; and a clear one at that.

[ Parent ]
Jasmyne A. Cannick
Jasmyne A. Cannick is so full of crap that it hurts.  

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