Governator wants CA Supreme Court to overturn Prop 8

How about him calling the yes on 8 campaign a bunch of liars.

  He should know what all took place, he should be able to say how deceptive the yes on 8 campaign was.  Come on gov.  Tell the truth.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 08:11:50 AM CST

one other thing he said...

.
One other thing from the man who usually says nothing about anything, is that NO ON PROP 8 ran an ineffective campaign.

I'm starting to go through the hundreds of thousands of pages of financial documents submitted to the CA Secretary of State from the convoluted web of organizations behind NO ON 8. One thing I can say already is that the same schemes that keep profitable Universities and institutions non-profit have been and are being employed by the NO ON 8 organizations, especially when it comes to the SIZABLE outlays for staff and consultants.

The organizations involved are EQ CA, Equality for All, With Liberty and Justice for All, Log Cabin Republicans, HRC, ACLU Northern CA, Feminist Majority Foundation, Marriage Equality USA, Californians for Justice Education Fund, National Center for Lesbian Rights, Californians Against Eliminating Basic Rights, National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, and several local county based PACs.

Still, the "portal" where most of us donated money NO ON PROP 8 is refusing to return my phone calls, consistently lying to me when I call them by saying their board of directors and key senior staff are all listed on their website (which they are not, although REQUIRED by CA law), the board members I do know about have refused to take my calls as have their staff, and the accounting firms of the major players won't answer a single question, even general cursory questions regarding donation accountability.

This is going to take a while and lots and lots of paper, but just going through the incomplete financial docs of EQ CA, what so many prominent Californians of means have known for some time is totally accurate.

David B.
.

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by: dbranson @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 08:18:51 AM CST

You go!

Can't wait to read your results.

Everyone who gave a dollar or an hour deserves a full accounting of where in the hell 40 million dollars went.

But wait, there's more!

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by: PhoenixRising @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 09:07:33 AM CST

[ Parent ]

while you tear apart our morale,

be sure to let us know how you would have changed the minds of a bigoted state in a few short months.  it's legit to see where the money went and all, but if you undermine people's willingness to continue to participate, you must also be willing to take the blame for the continuance of bigotry in CA.  i hope you are being smart and strategic in your witch hunt analysis.

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by: Lurleen @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 10:03:38 AM CST

[ Parent ]

maybe you should inform yourself

The key people involved in the amateurish, ineffective, and off-message campaigns that ran in HEAVY, HEAVY rotation in very wide penetration from August 2008 through mid-October are the same serial-bunglers that have financially devastated and ended one organization/campaign/task force after another.  They were as unqualified to head a NO ON 8 campaign as they were to design a marketing campaign, and locked out qualified, experienced individuals.  They chronically give priority to their political and professional self-promotion.  I will do whatever I can to expose them and the way in which funds and opportunity were squandered on everything but a focused, effective campaign to make sure they aren't given the chance to do this again.

They fail, time and time again because of their incompetence in management while monopolizing fundraising mindshare.  This is why people with means and informed options, such as Ellen DeGeneres, produced their own spots and bought their own airtime and avoided giving money to these jerks all together.

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by: dbranson @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 10:16:28 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I'm not saying it might not be true.

I really don't know.  But what I'm saying is take care in how you present your case because if we end up with a power vacuum and an unwilling membership at the wrong time, we'll be in even worse shape than you think we're in now.  Doesn't that make sense?  Have you lined up a replacement board with impeccable credentials and who everyone will trust immediately?  If not, be careful, you could inadvertently be working to our detriment.

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by: Lurleen @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 10:28:46 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Yes, it's clear you don't know

You'd have been just what the NO ON 8 people were looking for... gab on!

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by: dbranson @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 10:37:17 AM CST

[ Parent ]

How can there be a power vacuum

when the people who spent the money have shown they have no power outside of the opinions of their donor base? You're asking whether the new set of clothes for the Emperor will be as shiny as these threads, and those who know how the ad industry works are pointing out that he's buck nekkid.

I'll turn this into a blog post, but:

Why do we need to replace the boards of organizations that have failed so profoundly?

By pissing through 40 million dollars on a campaign that moved roughly 0% of undecideds, they have made themselves irrelevant.

What we need to do next is not to replicate their failure by replacing a board member or a board, but to identify what data was used to make choices that have turned out disastrously. Only then can those of us who are serious about full citizenship for our families determine how to effectively recover.

If you're wondering why those who know how advertising works are all soooo pissed, I'll give you a hint: Look at the video and print campaign that was already in the can for the marriage decision:

http://www.letcaliforniaring.o...

Compare that to the dull, non-responsive ads for the 14th Amendment that ran in heavy circulation.

Ask yourself, Why would anyone fail to use these persuasive and professionally produced materials in the fight of our lives?

Follow the money.

But wait, there's more!

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by: PhoenixRising @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 14:06:36 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Correct me if I am wrong

Being a big Nazi gym bunny is not quite the same thing as the struggle for LGBT equal rights.  

Same-Sex Marriage is good for the economy.

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by: CharlesMerrill @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 08:22:04 AM CST

Can you explain?

Could you do me a favor and explain the Nazi comment about him?

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by: rupi3000 @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 08:43:57 AM CST

[ Parent ]

His family in Austria

He is mellowing out.  I don't mean he is a neo-Nazi, just a Republican fascist and all that goes along with that.  His father was a member of the Nazi party.  There are some control characteristics inherited from him.

Same-Sex Marriage is good for the economy.

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by: CharlesMerrill @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 08:59:49 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Agree...That is his family history.....

But he came to America..primarily I think to make money as a body-builder, but found here a different way of life he appreciated, as many young people do who emigrate.  He also married a Shriver...so his views have been shifting nicely left ever since. 

He was on CNN last night. He has been a good governor precisely because he does what he feels is right, if it doesn't work politically, or he changes his mind he say so.

I too am extremely frustrated that he did not come out ahead of the vote. I had Partricia Nell Warren write him a proclamation, but never heard back from anyone in Sacramento.

PS See pics above. 

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

---

by: Orion45 @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 10:29:38 AM CST

[ Parent ]

There's something in that.

He has been a good governor precisely because he does what he feels is right, if it doesn't work politically, or he changes his mind he say so.

It seems to me that Schwarzenegger is going to get a load of stick for vetoing gay marriage previously, then supporting it now - but I have to wonder whether there might not be a more practical reason for his evident change of heart: has someone close to him been doing what the rest of us should, and (to paraphrase Gandhi) "being the change we seek in our world"? So when you hear an LGBT person criticising him for his change of direction, for not stumping for us from the beginning, just remind them that he might have had the kind of change of heart we want to see happen in a few million other Californians.

____________________________________
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.

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by: tavdy79 @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 11:41:17 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Nice high minded thoughts

But, Arnie is thinking about change of a different sort, revenue to the state.  His quote, "You know, I'm wishing everyone good luck with their marriages and I hope that California's economy is booming because everyone is going to come here and get married."

Same-Sex Marriage is good for the economy.

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by: CharlesMerrill @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 11:52:03 AM CST

[ Parent ]

And why didn't we argue that?

Given that the state is $3 billion in the hole, the economic argument should have been an easy sell. Talk about whether couples would rather come here to MA to get married. Have quotes from florists, caterers, and other people who'll be financially impacted. Talk about how much money the counties take in from wedding licenses and ceremonies--and how all of that money will go elsewhere if 8 passes.

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by: Darkrose @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 16:17:38 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Excuse ...

... but this is one of the more ignorant things I heard on a blog recently.  Even more so since I happen to be of German decent (yes, German father, born in 1932).

As you might recall form history class, most of Germans and Austrians (and others) sympathized or actively supported the Nazi - at least in the beginning.  Are you suggesting, that every Austrian - and even more so German - is a Nazi by definition?  Most of them have German fathers (and mothers btw.)  

How would you explain that these countries made their way from the unbelievably cruel regimes into their roles nowadays?  Just one example: Germany is one of the more important allies of Israel and plays an important diplomatic role in the middle east.  I think in general, it's a fairly well respected country - a country full of Nazis?

Don't get me wrong - I am not a fan or Arnold, and I think that his timing was off, or should I rather say it was very 'well' planned?  First, don't get in trouble with the GOP during election and then pull back to try and look good in front of a big LGBT community in CA.  That's something to point out - the nazi reference just doesn't help to make any point.

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by: rupi3000 @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 11:28:09 AM CST

[ Parent ]

nazi offspring

Schwarzenegger father and grandparents were Nazi sympathizers and collaborators.

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by: dbranson @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 10:05:01 AM CST

[ Parent ]

who cares.

are you guys honestly saying that he has a nazi gene or something?  this is ridiculous, and is no different than the haters insisting that we gays indoctrinate children because "the sins of the father" etc..  get a grip people.  if you have evidence that arnold is a nazi, show it.  otherwise you have nothing.

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by: Lurleen @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 10:10:55 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Childhood indoctrination

No one mentioned genetics.  But, a Nazi father as a role model is a different story.  He represents all that is wrong with America in my opinion.  He and Bush have represented a narcissistic masculine dumbing down of America.  Glad we have a intelligent and skinny President with empathy for the disadvantaged about to take office.  Hopefully, the cult of brute force and masculinity is finished.

Same-Sex Marriage is good for the economy.

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by: CharlesMerrill @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 10:44:40 AM CST

[ Parent ]

i was indoctrinated too.

to be christian, straight, feminine, racist and homophobic.  didn't take though, none of it.  why do you think the nazi mindset took with arnold?  do you hvae evidence?  i dont' like his macho crap either, but that doesn't mean i'm going to call him a nazi.  he's a sexist political hack, nothing more.

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by: Lurleen @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 11:06:23 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I agree he has changed

But he was referring to his youth "pumping iron" competing back in Austria with the "struggle" comment, or at least it was the impression I got from first read.  Is he still "pumping iron" and competing after his heart attack ?  I don't keep up with him even though I am a same-sex married resident of California.  

Same-Sex Marriage is good for the economy.

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by: CharlesMerrill @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 11:26:33 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Why shouldn't he be pumping iron

after his heart attack? Exercising is GOOD.

And yes, to become elite, in any field, including what you refer to as "pumping iron" requires pain, suffering, sacrifice.

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by: rfloh @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 14:15:35 PM CST

[ Parent ]

You're setting up a false dichotomy here

One can be both strong, lift heavy weights, and still be GLBT, or a woman. Look up Bill "Peanuts" West, if you're interested in more than engaging in demagogic rhetoric.

One can be both strong, and smart.

One would think that on a GLBT board, people wouldn't resort to lazy stereotypes.

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by: rfloh @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 14:18:47 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I thought we were talking about Prop 8?

Well?

Dena

Cisgender. Because "Genetic" (or non) is so 2006.

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by: Denabeth @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 13:11:04 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Offended German-American here

My grandparents were from Germany and they were arrested and sent to a prison camp in Crystal City, Texas for the duration of WWII.

They lost everything and had to fight to retain their American citizenship after the war.

They hated Nazis and were forced to live with real Nazis and Nazi collaborators simply because they were born in Germany and had relatives who were high-ranking Nazi officials.

This happened to thousands of innocent German-Americans during WWII. Look it up. Most people think only the Japanese were sent to camps.

Please don't call loyal Americans like Schwarzenegger a Nazi. He's simply a Republican.  

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 11:47:36 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Sorry about you grandparents

That must have been a terrible time. Arnold's father never suffered as your family did, as he was a member of the Nazi party and the cause of your grandparents catastrophe.

Same-Sex Marriage is good for the economy.

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by: CharlesMerrill @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 12:08:22 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Don't forget

Many of my mother's relatives were Nazis.

That shouldn't be a reflection on me, though.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 12:19:34 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I am an amateur historian...

and I would be very interested in any links on the German-American or Italian-American internment. All I have heard of (besides the very well documented AJA camps) is the internment of diplomatic and other staff. I would be very interested in reading more about this. :)

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by: SharonB @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 12:42:13 PM CST

[ Parent ]

So you disagree with the main point of what he said

which was that the GLBT community should never give up?

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by: rfloh @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 14:21:38 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Arnold doesn't give a F*CK about LGBT people in CA

He just wants to tamp down our demonstrations. His obvious hypocricy on our issues changes every time he sticks his finger in the air.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 09:31:32 AM CST

NO, guys....this has been over a two year period..

I actually think he has changed his mind. I do feel he was dishonest in the reasons he did not sign the original bills. I think then he was following Catholic mandates. But in the time since, I think he has had a true change of heart.  

Why he would not come out forcefully before the Vote I don't know...it would have helped. Maria did, but only days before.

I think what has happened, just like with all who love their friends, families...they know a number of people these bills/laws afftected directly and have been awakened to the the true meaning...it was a process...as it is for most of us.

So now we are back to the Bravery of Justice George.... 

 

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

---

by: Orion45 @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 10:48:32 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Operative Truth...

Keep reminding everyone one that the California Legislature passed marriage equality not once but TWICE.....it has been passed by the legislature....not thanks to Arnuld for vetoing it....the point I want to emphasize is that:

SAME SEX MARRIAGE WAS PASSED BY THE CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE not matter what anyone says...

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by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 11:19:20 AM CST

[ Parent ]

How lovely.

Arnold is the biggest wimp in the GOP, and that's saying something.  Not only is he again relying on "activist judges" to do the work he could have helped do actively, he's making his comments at a time when they are largely useless.  

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by: Lurleen @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 10:07:20 AM CST

I applaud david's efforts. Here is why we lost.

Time. Energy. Money.

As a recently married gay man, I contributed a lot of each against Prop. 8. I'm sad that we failed to beat it. But I'm also angry-- and not just about political campaigns fueled by bigotry, conservative religion, and way too much tax-free money-- because I could see defeat coming with the inevitability of a slow-motion train wreck.

At the campaign kickoff, I asked Mark Leno personally if campaign leaders were going to do the liberal-tolerance-equality strategy again, pointing out that it has failed repeatedly. Or, were they going to show actual gay people, actual families, and actual lives. You know: reality. He said that focus groups indicated that everybody-make-nice and civil liberties were the way to go. This would move the undecided voters who were so crucial. I made the same point to HRC's Marty Rouse and several campaign leaders, and got the same response. The approach would be political rather than human, in every sense of both words.

What a concept! Let's ask straight people who are afraid of gay people about how to win gay rights, instead of asking gay people what has worked in their lives. You can see the result of focus group viewpoints. We have been focused over big-time.

Politics may move undecided voters, but the movement is only as valuable as the last person they spoke to. Human connections move hearts and minds, even minds that are made up. People who know gay people don't usually vote against them. But it's easy to vote against someone who is invisible, faceless, a menacing other, instead of friend or family, or even someone you just met on the street. And in No on 8, we were invisible. We saw the supportive, loving parents, but no gay daughter, no grandchildren. No on 8 was uninterested in a speakers' bureau to reach out to community groups and churches; I gave up asking. They wanted volunteers for phone banking and sign waving, not personal contact with real voters. At a training we were told NOT to use words like children, because Pro-8 people had appropriated the issue. Because we refused to claim it-- to claim reality-- it was used against us. Likewise, we can't talk about this ancient and deeply rooted anti-gay prejudice, either, because by calling attention to a reality in our lives, we might offend the very people who call us a threat to family, faith, and country. Newsflash! Our existence offends them.

This all may make sense to professional political people in their world and culture, but not in mine. It fails as a strategy because it embraces THE CLOSET, which is our real enemy. The closet is US. It is making ourselves invisible and unknown, rather than showing the simple fact and humanity of our lives. It is our consent to the lies, our silence in the face of naked prejudice. It is us not standing up for ourselves, and when we don't, who else will stand with us? I absolutely praise and thank our leaders for their efforts and sacrifices and dedication. But frankly, if our leaders don't know that we have to stand up for ourselves, as ourselves, then they shouldn't be our leaders. Because here's the result: we gay people were barely visible, and more people thought that the standard of living of California chickens was more important than the families of their fellow Americans.

Thirty years ago, I worked against the Briggs Initiative, which would have banned gay teachers. A much smaller group of people, with far fewer resources, in a far less accepting time, succeeded against great odds. Maybe I'm romanticizing, but I remember it was because all we really had to show were ourselves and our lives. We said NO to the closet.

I know this fight is far from over. We will be back. However, if future campaign organizations want to continue this losing strategy of focus groups, phone banking, invisibility, and cute but irrelevant ads that look good on political resumes but change nothing, the rest of us need a parallel campaign that comes out of the closet and presents us as who we are.

If you expect me to stay in the closet, then don't, DON'T expect one minute of my time, one iota of my energy, or one dime of my money.

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by: Ben in Oakland @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 11:07:05 AM CST

the real failure

It's important to weed these people out.

ANY high school student with a Intro to Marketing textbook would have done a better job with the marketing.  There was only 1 issue for Prop 8 (as Protect the Family framed early and often).  School children being taught about gay marriage.  Again, any high school student would have know to focus group this issue and potential responses.

Too many key people with control issues didn't do this. Not only did they not effectively respond to this singular issue, they didn't even test for it.

On TV station websites throughout the state that allowed for user comments on NEWS items I found, again and again and again the same comments:  I'm all for gay equality, I have several gay friends, but I don't want my child learning about gay marriage in school...

This is a totally expected response to the YES ON 8 message by any parent who wants to protect their child from a hard life - and our lives are hard (even though we all know the exposure premise is ignorant foolishness).  Our friends and supporters voted against us and anybody that knew what they were doing would have realized that early on...

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by: dbranson @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 11:39:09 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I know what I'm doing

For many years, I worked in the Marketing department of a major U.S. retailer.

I tried to tell the No on 8 folks that they were missing their target audiences and running ineffective ads. I was told that my ideas are outdated and contradicted data obtained though their focus groups.

I said that hispanics and other minority groups had to be frightened away from voting for Prop 8 through commercials that showed state police arresting people. They had to be shown that Prop. 8 could lead to violence against minorities.

I was told that we could not "lie" to people in the No on 8 ads. I was told that it would be unethical to use such tactics.

We didn't and WE LOST.

We needed to counter the "teaching children about gay marriage" ads with an ad that showed hispanic children being ripped from the arms of their immigrant parents as the INS ships them back to Mexico!

"Prop. 8 will lead to YOUR rights being taken away at the ballot box, too. Don't be fooled by this first step to a police state in California."

THAT should have been the message. It would have worked.

Ads targeting hispanic voters should have ran on Spanish-language TV and radio non-stop, telling them that the scary white Mormons want to send them back to where they came from and keep them from getting hospital care.

Another big mistake was not using images of gay couples in the ads. Their focus groups showed them that people have a negative reaction to gay male couples -- no shit! So, they made the error of ignoring what this campaign was all about. They used vague language and produced a campaign that seeemd deceptive and timid.

In marketing, if you have a damaged brand, you have to be aggressive in countering negative opinions. It is like a major airline ignoring the fact that five of their planes have crashed and running ads about Hawaiian vacations. That doesn't work. People are still afraid to fly on the planes! What is needed is the CEO of the airline to directly address safety concerns of the public.

Likewise, California voters needed to hear directly from those whom they fear most -- gay male couples. They needed to see the faces of real people and learn that it isn't all about the anal sex they find so disgusting.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 12:09:40 PM CST

[ Parent ]

You're spot on!

.
You're so right.  The NO ON 8 bunglers, at the expense of millions and millions of dollars, INEXPLICABLY hired firms whose background was social marketing - NOT POLITICS. (I'm dreading finding a connection of nepotism in this area!).

Not only did they not do the basic focus-group based research properly - they weren't asking the right questions.  It was obvious in the first week of September the research was useless and the spots were ineffective.

Blacks and Latino's were written off early on and the gods-awful campaign stayed focused on white middle and upper class. (might of worked, but Orange County actually had the lowest voter turn out in many, many years)

They put out only one answer ad and it was a lie - toying with words to trick the voters!  (I guess this is their high-minded attitude in action).  The CA Superintendent of Schools proclaimed directly into the camera, "CA schools aren't required to teach marriage."  That was the end.  Every parent with young children in school know that marriage, families, et al ARE taught in EVERY school.

WE LOST BECAUSE GAY LAGGARD REPEAT OFFENDERS CORRALLED THIS CAMPAIGN EARLY ON AND INVESTED SIGNIFICANT ENERGY INTO SHUTTING OUT EVERY EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONAL PERSON THAT SAW THE EMPEROR HAD NO CLOTHES.

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by: dbranson @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 14:08:45 PM CST

[ Parent ]

You know, a subtle theme is emerging in this thread

everyone can see what's going on
they laugh 'cos they know they're untouchable
not because what I said was wrong
whatever it may bring
I will have my own policies
I will sleep with a clear conscience
I will sleep in peace

maybe it sounds mean
but I really don't think so
you asked for the truth and I told you
through their own words
they will be exposed
they've got a severe case of
the emperor's new clothes.

I use it as the ringtone for my state org's staffers and board members...so I remind myself who's calling.

I'm truly bothered by the news that they were above fighting for my family by using techniques that work. Not shocked so much, but bothered.

But wait, there's more!

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by: PhoenixRising @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 14:17:21 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yes

Frank Schubert discovered that gem in the Yes on 8 focus groups and went on it. Find that Sacramento Bee article about how he found that playing on fear he won the winning touchdown for Yes on 8.  

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by: mmunson @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 12:38:45 PM CST

[ Parent ]

The statement 'didn't even test for it' implies something

Do you know, or have you seen or heard about, what the focus groups asked and the results?

I'm waiting for an information audit to expose not 'who did this', which is irrelevant, but instead what data they were working from to draw what were clearly dubious conclusions.

But wait, there's more!

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by: PhoenixRising @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 14:13:29 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Fritz

I would have to disagree with the fear suggestion. It isn't the issue.

but aovuiding any view of gay people-- what a disaster that was. I have been protesting that for years.

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by: Ben in Oakland @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 12:17:53 PM CST

Fight fire with fire

It may be difficult to stoop to the level of your opponent. But, it has been proven that the uneducated  voters respond best to fear appeals. You can't reason with them.

The message for hispanics and other monorities had to be...

"You're next!"

Sadly, it is the truth. Expect to see an amendment that limits the rights of immigrants in the very near future.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 12:25:23 PM CST

[ Parent ]

On your note...

I believe one of the FL ballot initiatives had to do with the repeal of some 1912 era "yellow scare" law limiting the property rights of Asian Americans. It lost, too. The bigotry is out there.

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by: SharonB @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 12:48:37 PM CST

[ Parent ]

thanks for pointing that out.

i hadn't heard of it until now.  here is an NYT story about it.  it all makes me really wonder how obama got elected, because the country is still majority bigots.

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by: Lurleen @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 13:08:56 PM CST

[ Parent ]

if you read the info on the court site, our case is very strong

our case is not only right and just, but legally very sound.

browse through some of the filings at
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/co...
and you'll see how plain and obvious it is that Prop 8 would be an illegal revision of the constitution and thus cannot be enforced, any more than you could suddenly decide to enforce the death penalty only against Catholics and Mormons.  

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by: chiefscribe @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 12:22:55 PM CST

Wow, just wow...

As a german I am absolutely terrified about all the stupid, uncalled-for nazi comments.

I guess you get elitist, big headed morons in every community, even in ours.

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by: Kamikapse @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 14:22:12 PM CST

I take it back

He is not a Nazi.  I heard him on CNN and appreciate his sticking up for us this late stage in the game.  He made us angry by vetoing same-sex marriage the first time.
We say things out of anger, and there is alot of buzz on the net about his father, Arnold's wearing a Nazi belt buckle,  and his being friends with Kurt Waldheim a known Nazi.

Same-Sex Marriage is good for the economy.

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by: CharlesMerrill @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 15:04:06 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Politics, baby!

Arnold is a good politician (whether it's his foresight or the Kennedies'). He knows the Republican party has to undergo change to make a comeback. And he will be in one of the best positions to take the helm of the Republican party - he's moderate, socially liberal, and if he will support same-sex marriage, I bet it will be big with a ton of gays and lesbians.

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by: avocado @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 14:31:53 PM CST

Arunuld carpet bagged the governorship

He'll never be popular with me.  Although I do appreciate this spin about how he hopes Prop H8 will be overturned.

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by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 14:36:46 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Thank Maria

I heard Schwarzy joke that Maria finally let him back into the bedroom after Obama's win. She's probably been hounding him nonstop about the gay marriage issue.

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by: Donica @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 19:00:02 PM CST

fear

yeah!put the fear of g*d into those damn minorities.

(you white guys are starting to scare ME.)
"they'll  haul your ass back to mexico"
is not exactly appropriate "marketing"
blaming various brown people here is at least as offensive as
as vilifying ALL germans.....

-Javier

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by: javier @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 23:48:08 PM CST

"The message for hispanics and other monorities"

"Fight fire with fire  (0.00 / 0)
It may be difficult to stoop to the level of your opponent.
But, it has been proven that the uneducated  voters respond best to fear appeals.
You can't reason with them.

The message for hispanics and other monorities had to be...

"You're next!".....  "

ugly.just ugly.

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by: javier @ Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 23:53:47 PM CST