The Economic Learning Curve For Businesspeople Who Supported Prop 8

Reasonable people can't disagree

I love these mea culpas from Prop 8 proponents, arguing that emotions are high on both sides, and we should all just learn to agree to disagree.  Bullshit.  Emotions are high on our side because we're having rights taken away.  Emotions are high on their side because they think they are legally superior to us.  There is no equivalency here.  Reasonable people can't disagree on this...reasonable people don't spend their hard-earned money to take away the rights of others.  

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by: ChristopherM @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 09:42:54 AM CST

Who Did Not Donate-be careful with assumptions

Note of caution about the list of contributors-I contributed to No on 8 and my name does not show up on the SFGate list or other list sites.  I contacted the firm handling the donations (ML Associates of West Hollywood, CA), and they said that most contributions that were made in late October will not be reported to the Sec of State until closer to the reporting deadline of January 2009.  So, if someone is NOT on the list, it does not necassarily mean they did not contribute.  

Having said that, if they are ON the list as a Yes on 8 supporter, they did the deed and telling them how you feel is very cool.  

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by: johnalter @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 11:10:18 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I don't know if anyone else has posted this yet

given the level of activism of those on this blog I'm pretty sure someone has, but I've been on vacation (yeah a real vacation!) and haven't been around.  SFGate.com has a list of everyone who donated to either faction on Prop 8.  The site lists the individuals city, state and employer.  You can search by donor name, as well as the city and state in which they live.  I was rather surprised to find that my current state of residence, Ohio, only gave about $5,000 to support the measure, while we donated almost half a million to fight it.  I did, however find the name and subsequently located a business address of an individual here in the Cleveland area that donated to support 8.  Rest assured I will be providing the name of his business and its location to everyone in attendance at the Free Stamp rally in Cleveland this Saturday.  I urge everyone to search this list for business owners local to them, not only to stage economic protests in response to their stance on prop 8, but to identify future enemies when the fight for equality comes to your state.

Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes

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by: Kiera_Lynn @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 09:55:47 AM CST

A Thought

Does anyone have a copy of that list with just the company names listed? That way it would be quicker for people to identify pro-discrimination companies in their local area.

____________________________________
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.

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by: tavdy79 @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 11:24:36 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Boycotts don't end until the damage is undone,

  or there is proof that there is a true change of heart thru a donation to overturn Hate 8.

 The state of Utah is going to feel the squeeze for the actions of the LDS. There already has been reservations cancelled for ski vacations there.  I hope the state of Florida feels the crunch as well.

 Serves them right IMHO.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 10:09:28 AM CST

legal rights? maybe

...I understood that in California domestic partnerships come with the same rights that come with marriage.

Well, yes and no. Should.  But doesn't always work.

Earlier this year, I had a minor medical procedure done in a -- San Francisco, mind you -- hospital.  On the admitting forms, they ask for what used to be called next-of-kin.  I put down my partner's name and for relationship, wrote "Domestic Partner".  The admitting clerk read it, tsk-ed a couple of times, whited out the DP and wrote "NONE".  

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by: fq5757 @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 10:26:33 AM CST

cuz "separate but equal" is something we want to return to

right?

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by: clytemnestra @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 11:02:23 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Of course we don't!

 
The word marriage is important....it adds validity to the relationship.  Can't be civil unions or domestic partnerships or some other separate but equal thing.

And we need to get it recognized at the federal level as well.

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by: fq5757 @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 12:49:06 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Hmmmmmmmm....

Sounds like a legal action to me.  

If YOU put down a "next-of-kin" and the snarky clerk changed it, that's altering a health record WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION!!  Even though this horse has gotten out of the barn, I would've PITCHED A ROYAL BITCH!!  

It's one thing when a patient cannot speak for him/herself; that's what Powers of Attorney and MARRIAGE LICENSES are for!!! ... but this is RIDICULOUS!

HIPPA RULES!

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by: GraciesDaddy @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 13:37:00 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Stupidly idioticly annoying

"I am deeply saddened that my acting upon my religious convictions has been devastating to those I love and admire..."

I just can't believe that people think it's ok/moral/right/allowed to vote based on their religious convictions.  What a moron.  Why don't people see how dangerous this is?  Don't they remember about separation of church and state?  It seems stupidly idioticly (is that a word) annoying that this guy didn't think about anyone but himself and his "religious convictions" before he made moral judgments on others.  Are there appropriate words that he could respectfully hear that would finally make this sink in?  I obviously am having a hard time articulating it.  It is so black and white for me to read what he said and state with conviction that he is so, so, so wrong, regardless of what his personal religious beliefs are.  How can people be so tunnel-visioned?  

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by: Narra @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 10:34:24 AM CST

the best response to this logical fallacy

is to inform the other that marraiges which are not sanctioned by her or his personal religious beliefs happen every minute of every day and in every part of this country and the world.  There are biblical prohibitions against inter-racial and inter-faith marraiges, yet no legislation bars those unions, not to mention civil marraiges of irreligious partners.  In addition Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Wiccans, Zoroastrianists, et. al. marry all the time in this country in unions not sanctioned by Christian beliefs.

It also makes an effective argument against christianists who spout that legitmizing same sex unions will make the "gay lifestyle" more attractive and rob their children of their immortal souls.  For an evangelical losing a child to Islam, or Buddhism would be just as damning to his or her soul as being gay, but you don't see them railing against the legitmization of non-christian belief systems.

Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes

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by: Kiera_Lynn @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 10:46:36 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Well obviously people do think it's ok.

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by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 11:35:21 AM CST

[ Parent ]

his sister

is a lesbian according to him. So, my guess is that whatever he could hear, he already hurt.  

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by: avocado @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 17:27:40 PM CST

[ Parent ]

And they are oblivious to the irony.

The two biggest religious corporations that oppose gay marriage, the Mormons and the Catholics, have both been historically victims of persecution based on others' religious beliefs.  The Mormons were driven out of every civilized state in the country and had to settle in what was then (and is now, for the most part) a wilderness, i.e. Utah.  And anti-Catholic sentiment was a major strain in a lot of American politics as late as WWII.  As a pointed example, Rutherford B. Hayes got elected governor of Ohio largely on a promise to drive all the Catholics out of the state.  

But then, given the sorry state of American education, Mormons and Catholics know as little history as the rest of the country, including their own history.  Even if they were capable of learning its lessons, they never have a chance to.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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by: QScribe @ Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 11:14:13 AM CST

[ Parent ]

MARRIOTT Intl gets 100 on HRC EQUALITY INDEX.

In 2008 HRC Buyers Guide...wonder if that will change?

This is from their DIVERSITY: Global Fact Sheet.

Marriott recently established a new goal of spending 15% with minority-, women- and gay- and lesbian-owned U.S. suppliers by 2009.

and the list of professional organizations includes the,
National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce.

And they note the score off 100 by HRC Equality Index.

They have 3000 lodging properties, over 400 of which are owned and operated by minorities.

 

So any thoughts folks...I was going to look up a contact site...but got to run now.

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 10:40:18 AM CST

MARRIOTT link:

For suggestions: 

marriott.com/suggest/suggest.mi

Sent personal boycott notice...and emailed it to HRC

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 10:51:13 AM CST

[ Parent ]

No Support for H8

From what I've seen and read or the last day, Marriott have tried to distance themselves from Prop. 8 etc. although I don't think they've actually formally opposed the LDS's stance.

____________________________________
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.

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by: tavdy79 @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 11:28:42 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Keep up the boycotts!

Not only until the damage is undone in the states where this passed but ALSO to make it the costs of this plain in the states that these bigots are eyeing.. like CT and MA.

You are not only fighting to overturn this injustice, you are fighting to keep it from spreading.

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by: clytemnestra @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 11:00:50 AM CST

This is the quote from the El Coyote manager

I have been sick at heart that anyone has been offended by me. I have family, friends, employees from the gay community who are treasured people in my life.

I have been a member of the Mormon church all my life. I responded to their request with my personal donation.

There are those who vote Yes on prop 8 who if they were encountered before the election might have voted otherwise.

This quote to me shows the giant disconnect between what some believed they were voting for vs what they really did with their Yes vote....discriminate like hell...

Secondly, this quote is more damning evidence of the malignant force the Mormon church had over the election.

For the next vote on this issue, we need to engage these people BEFORE the vote not after.  ProtectMarriage had an extensive list of endorsers of Yes on 8 which included elected officials, clergy, businesses and individuals...when the next vote comes, the next set of endorsers of discrimination need to be confronted before the vote not after.  The donor list from mormonsfor8.org would of had this managers name on it since she gave $1000.  Hit her and the business before the election not after....bring the press always.

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by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 11:34:51 AM CST

I know I trusted the strategies of the No On Prop 8 Campaign because I thought they knew what they were doing.

In my mind, it's pretty clear I trusted leadership who weren't up to the task.

If this issue comes up to voters in California again in my lifetime, I'm not going to trust the same coalition of organizations to run the campagign. The campaign was very much a top down, "control the message" campaign -- they weren't nimble, and the "stick" side of the "carrot and stick" message (describing what would likely happen with the grass roots if our side lost) wasn't communicated at all to businesses. In large part, the campaign's failures to highlight/communicate likely consequences of supporting Yes On Prop 8 are why businesspeople who those people supported Yes On Prop 8 are so surprised now.

Karen, the No On Prop 8 Campaign, in retrospect, didn't take a lot of the actions they probably should have -- in my mind, they didn't run a particularly good campaign. The L.A. Times has an editorial about the failings of the No On Prop 8 Campaign, and it's linked to in the PHB quick hits -- I tend to agree with the L.A. Times' conclusions.

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~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau

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by: Autumn Sandeen @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 11:53:14 AM CST

[ Parent ]

this is what I wrote on the subject

Time. Energy. Money.

As a recently married gay man, I contributed a lot of each against Prop. 8. I'm sad that we failed to beat it. But I'm also angry-- and not just about political campaigns fueled by bigotry, conservative religion, and way too much tax-free money-- because I could see defeat coming with the inevitability of a slow-motion train wreck.

At the campaign kickoff, I asked Mark Leno personally if campaign leaders were going to do the liberal-tolerance-equality strategy again, pointing out that it has failed repeatedly. Or, were they going to show actual gay people, actual families, and actual lives. You know: reality. He said that focus groups indicated that everybody-make-nice and civil liberties were the way to go. This would move the undecided voters who were so crucial. I made the same point to HRC's Marty Rouse and several campaign leaders, and got the same response. The approach would be political rather than human, in every sense of both words.

What a concept! Let's ask straight people who are afraid of gay people about how to win gay rights, instead of asking gay people what has worked in their lives. You can see the result of focus group viewpoints. We have been focused over big-time.

Politics may move undecided voters, but the movement is only as valuable as the last person they spoke to. Human connections move hearts and minds, even minds that are made up. People who know gay people don't usually vote against them. But it's easy to vote against someone who is invisible, faceless, a menacing other, instead of friend or family, or even someone you just met on the street. And in No on 8, we were invisible. We saw the supportive, loving parents, but no gay daughter, no grandchildren. No on 8 was uninterested in a speakers' bureau to reach out to community groups and churches; I gave up asking. They wanted volunteers for phone banking and sign waving, not personal contact with real voters. At a training we were told NOT to use words like children, because Pro-8 people had appropriated the issue. Because we refused to claim it-- to claim reality-- it was used against us. Likewise, we can't talk about this ancient and deeply rooted anti-gay prejudice, either, because by calling attention to a reality in our lives, we might offend the very people who call us a threat to family, faith, and country. Newsflash! Our existence offends them.

This all may make sense to professional political people in their world and culture, but not in mine. It fails as a strategy because it embraces THE CLOSET, which is our real enemy. The closet is US. It is making ourselves invisible and unknown, rather than showing the simple fact and humanity of our lives. It is our consent to the lies, our silence in the face of naked prejudice. It is us not standing up for ourselves, and when we don't, who else will stand with us? I absolutely praise and thank our leaders for their efforts and sacrifices and dedication. But frankly, if our leaders don't know that we have to stand up for ourselves, as ourselves, then they shouldn't be our leaders. Because here's the result: we gay people were barely visible, and more people thought that the standard of living of California chickens was more important than the families of their fellow Americans.

Thirty years ago, I worked against the Briggs Initiative, which would have banned gay teachers. A much smaller group of people, with far fewer resources, in a far less accepting time, succeeded against great odds. Maybe I'm romanticizing, but I remember it was because all we really had to show were ourselves and our lives. We said NO to the closet.

I know this fight is far from over. We will be back. However, if future campaign organizations want to continue this losing strategy of focus groups, phone banking, invisibility, and cute but irrelevant ads that look good on political resumes but change nothing, the rest of us need a parallel campaign that comes out of the closet and presents us as who we are.

If you expect me to stay in the closet, then don't--DON"T-- expect one minute of my time, one iota of my energy, or one dime of my money.

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by: Ben in Oakland @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 12:17:49 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yep. We gave them the benefit of the doubt...

...and in hindsight we put the campaign in the wrong hands. Right now, it looks like the same bunch who were in charge of the No On Prop 8 campaign are trying to wrest control of the grassroots revolts/marches/protests.

That just can't be allowed to happen. I personally feel the folks previously in charge ran the wrong campaign, and I know I sure as hell don't want them assume charge of the grass roots again.

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~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau

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by: Autumn Sandeen @ Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 00:35:08 AM CST

[ Parent ]

but of course

no one knew who the contributors were to be until they contributed.  by then it was too late.  but you're right about going forward - we need to have conversations with these people.  but how does that get done?

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.

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by: Lurleen @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 12:06:01 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Endorsement of discrimination

Like I said...there was an extensive list of endorsements on ProtectMarriage separate from contributions.
Picket the churches.  
Press confernce outside of elected officals offices.
Online list of businesses who endorsed.

As for the contributions..the mormonsfor8 website was up and running for a while.  

Also I agree with Ben about visibility. Pickets above make us visible.  Ben talks mostly about adds.  But we could still do facebook type demonstrations on street counters.  The one I was able to participate in last wkend had only 150 of us, but we were and extremely diverse group; straight, gay, young, old, families, kids, PFLAG parents, black, asian, white (no hispanics tho). and we were in the "suburb" not the city or gay part of LA.  People looked and responsed.  

I know you contributed hours of phone banking and I thank you.  Not my thing.  I wanted to dispense information.  I sent out tons of emails about the proposition.

More outreach and education will be needed for that 20% on the fence of which this time we only got 8%.  Visibility promotes discussion.  

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by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 12:38:43 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Fundraising game

I think fundraisers could come up with a fun fundraising scheme where people could make a tiered donation based up what they read or heard...

homosexuality is a choice  $100
homosexual lifestyle       $50
shoved down our throats    $25
marry my dog               $10
etc

All the classic innate comments could be graded and worth a level of contributing...I'm just so tired of hearing and reading the same ole comments and misconceptions I would love to pay money not to hear them anymore, figuratively at least.

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by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 13:08:56 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I'm putting my money where my rage is

As the mother of a gay son, and a citizen of another state (Arizona) who chose to deny fellow Arizonans the same rights they enjoy, I have to admit that I have been in an almost catatonic state of depression over the passage of California's Prop 8 and Arizona's Prop 102. But sadly, I expected Arizona to pass their hateful Prop 102 since we have such a high number of wingnuts and Mormons here, but I counted on the fairer more progressive citizens of California to lead the way to equality for all, just as they have done in the past.  And just to be on the safe side, my husband and I hedged our bets by contributing to the No on 8 campaign in California.

Never in my wildest dreams did I think that I would see the day where Californians would allow the LDS Church in Utah to have such a powerful and hateful influence on their laws and ultimately their precious Constitution. NEVER.

Thankfully (or maybe unfortunately) my catatonic depression is giving way to a slow but steadily growing rage. And I will spend every ounce of energy I have directing that rage into every avenue I can think of to punish those who thought nothing of voting to enshrine their hateful religious beliefs into our state constitutions and hurt one of my precious children.

One of many ways my husband and I will channel our rage is with our pocketbook. We are airline people. Airline people travel. Airline people travel a lot. Airline people employ lots and lots of gays and lesbians. And airline people spend lots of money on hotels and restaurants. And I will make it my life's mission to educate the airline people on who should and should not get our precious dollars, starting with Marriott hotels.

And yes I know, Bill Marriott wrote some weak letter trying to save himself from any blame, but that syrupy, "it's not my fault" letter just does not cut it for me. And nothing short of a strong statement condemning what his church did and a promise that he will fight with both words and money to undo the harm his church has wrought will change my mind. And I will start by putting my money where my mouth is. My husband and I have been Marriott Rewards members for years. NO MORE. Marriott will not see another damn dime from us ever again. We are extremely loyal patrons. But companies have to earn that loyalty. Bill Marriott will need to do more than write letters to get us back.

The Mormon Church has hurt my family deeply. This is one momma who is spittin mad. No one takes aim at one of my kids with their hate and bigotry and gets away with it - no one!

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by: Seething Mom @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 11:53:37 AM CST

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned...

but they're both mere amateurs compared to a protective Mum!

____________________________________
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.

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by: tavdy79 @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 12:15:51 PM CST

[ Parent ]

[Cough! Cough!]

Sorry, just choking on fur here...

WHEW!!  Your passion-without-irrationality is SO refreshing, SMom!!  Seriously:  Have YOU considered running for office?!?  I'd move to Sedona just to vote for you!

I'm adding you to my list of "Wymyn NOT to piss off!!"  [Ask Louise, Maura and Julien about that one!  ;) ]

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by: GraciesDaddy @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 21:55:56 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Boycotting these businesses is

reminiscent in a way of southern bus boycotts in the 60's. Also, ignorance is a personal choice.  These people aren't always reading and living by what their bible says, but what the person at the pulpit is telling them to do and when to do it.

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by: Mary in Iowa @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 11:59:16 AM CST

The Montgomery Bus Boycott...

...was a CLEAR case of "biting the hand that feeds you."

The bus system of Montgomery was a privately-owned enterprise; it was subsidized by the City of Montgomery, but I believe that subsidy was less than 1/3rd of its entire budget.  It was fares and ads on the buses that made up the rest of it.

WHO paid those fares??  Mostly, working-class/poor blacks.  When they left... no money!  [DUH!]

FWIW:  When a black person boarded a pre-boycott bus in Montgomery, they had to enter the FRONT of the bus, deposit their dime [gasp!] into the farebox, then get OFF the bus and enter through the BACK DOOR!  

"I'm not riding in the back of the bus anymore!" said Donna Brazille during a recent panel.  That phrase has become part of our lexicon... and it is true for US!

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by: GraciesDaddy @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 22:08:57 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Eckern has resigned

From the Sacramento Bee:

California Musical Theatre's artistic director, Scott Eckern, resigned from his post today amid controversy over a donation he made to the Proposition 8 campaign to ban gay marriage.

Eckern gave $1,000 in support of Proposition 8, a donation that sparked criticism from theater workers and the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community.

"We have released a statement that Scott resigned," said Chris McSwain, community affairs director for the theater company. He declined to comment further.

According to the statement, the theater company's board of directors received notice today from executive producer Richard Lewis saying that Eckern has resigned.

I would hazard a guess that he was invited to explore his career opportunities by the board, and given a choice of resigning or being fired. Either way, good riddance to bad rubbish.

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing

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by: QueerInSoCal @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 13:02:41 PM CST

Weak...

These weak statements from prop 8 monetary supporters of "I love my gay customers" are nothing more than a P.C. way of saying holy shit!!! I didn't know I would be on a list! If I had known I would have used a different name. Please help me keep my doors open so I can send more money if this ever comes up again... If you think it means anything else your just naive!!

If we don't start holding people/businesses accountable (through their wallet) we will never have full equality.  

...... Next time someone gives you a hard time for being LGBT... just ask them if they are unenlightened...or closeted

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by: lisabrealty @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 13:02:49 PM CST

Some businesses and big contributors

Ck out for businesses near you.  Hadn't seen this compilation before:
ww.afterellen.com/node/39787

This list starts with the really Big donations and goes on and on listing down to $1000... many of them businesses
http://californiansagainsthate...

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by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 13:17:36 PM CST

paying attention this time

http://www.afterellen.com/node...

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by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 13:22:13 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Gee...why don't they want to be known?

This from G-A-Y:

But over the past few days, an interesting phenomenon has crept up. All of a sudden, now that overlooked "yes on 8" donations are popping up and leading to scrutiny, we gays are being accused of being "intolerant" because we acknowledge and react to the public record. Our comments section is peppered with "outraged" folks who supported the ban, and we've heard the same thing from other folks who run web forums. We've even seen the choice to bring the donations to light referred to with terms like "witch hunting" and "McCarthyism."

Ye, Reap...what ye Sow. SOW H8...you will reap and earn and deserve H8. That's one of the beautiful freedoms we have in this country!

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 13:40:18 PM CST

Consequences

Those who hurt or damage our cause, our equality, have discovered that for perhaps the first time that they face consequences for promoting homophobia or taking homophobic positions.

Their surprise!

We need to continue to call out and exact a reconing from everyone who contributed money to enable the messages fo hate and of fear to be broadcast.

And as I used to tell my children when they had done something outrageous: "saying sorry does not always make it better"

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 13:47:16 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Gee...why don't they want to be known?

This from G-A-Y:

But over the past few days, an interesting phenomenon has crept up. All of a sudden, now that overlooked "yes on 8" donations are popping up and leading to scrutiny, we gays are being accused of being "intolerant" because we acknowledge and react to the public record. Our comments section is peppered with "outraged" folks who supported the ban, and we've heard the same thing from other folks who run web forums. We've even seen the choice to bring the donations to light referred to with terms like "witch hunting" and "McCarthyism."  

 Ye, Reap...what ye Sow. SOW H8...you will reap and earn and deserve H8. That's one of the beautiful freedoms we have in this country!

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

---

by: Orion45 @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 13:45:50 PM CST

McCarthyism?

Oh no, children of the Right, McCarthyism is preying upon fear, spreading hyperbolic lies, ungrounded and unfounded statements and accusations....just like the Yes on H8 campaign.
besides, wasn't Joe McCarthy your sort of guy?

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 13:51:59 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Marriott does separate belief from business - top po_rn seller

Apparently, businessmen spend a fair amount of money and time j-o, and this is the top profit center for Marriott. Forget the in-room bars - pron far outstrips booze in profitability. Smaller conservative Christian groups have threatened boycotts, but these haven't materialized, likely due to smarter leaders who squash them (don't bite the hand that feeds you).

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by: NancyP @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 13:54:16 PM CST

Oh, right. We're the "intolerant" ones.

So, let me see if I have this worked out.

A vote was held, decided by a slender majority to rescind a right the courts had granted.

Now that people know there are consequences, the cat-calls of the "you're intolerant for tolerating our intolerance" are, predictably popping up.

If I ever encounter this, I hope I have my husband with me, because I might end up in jail. When people ask me why I hate religion "despite all the good it's done," this is why. And you don't dare ask me to respect what you believe. I don't have to respect beliefs that don't respect me, and I'm tired of principled bigotry getting a pass because it's draped in the threadbare cloak of religion and some god-addled half-wit can gesture crudely in the direction of a holy book and mumble, "I believe..."

When do we get to claim intolerance? Huh? When do we get to say, "no, this is wrong." without hearing objections from people who see a threat in everything that makes them uncomfortable? When?

I'm so sick of having to repeat the same arguments and explanations every time this comes up.

"Sorry" doesn't cut it. Your real life action has had real life consequences for real life people. This isn't some silly little parable from a book of lies. You messed with human beings and you're  surprised that we're reacting this way? Look at it like this: had anything else been taken away, California might be in flames.

You take our money and then essentially hand it to people who make a living selling this stuff, and you're shocked that protests and boycotts have begun and show no sign of abating?

No, "sorry," doesn't begin to cut it. I hope you lose your business; we've lost far more than that. With every amendment that passes in this country, I feel less and less welcome. The few places that are (in many instances only marginally) friendly don't negate the broad sea of hatred and intolerance that flows through this land.

Look on the bright side though: at least you can still get married, right? I mean, it's a good thing that can't be taken from you. That would be horrible and a violation of rights! Heaven forbid something like that every happens to you.

No sympathy from me. You made your bed...

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by: Bachalon @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 15:23:51 PM CST

Mormon Mafia

From the comments I've read of those LDS members that donated to Prop 8, they all but say that the church extorted them to give money to Prop 8.

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by: Jon Michaels @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 16:34:26 PM CST

I hope they're not expecting us to sympathise.

They're paying the price for not standing up to their masters. If they'd had some guts a few weeks or months ago they wouldn't be in this situation now.

____________________________________
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.

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by: tavdy79 @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 16:54:36 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I totally agree.

If a church I attended told me I was required to donate to a political cause, I'd run for the door.  It's too bad that those who are now in Mea Culpa mode, didn't have the balls to do that in the first place.

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by: Jon Michaels @ Fri Nov 14, 2008 at 16:59:37 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I'm not sure I agree...

with boycotting a business because an employee donated.  And that's what this guy was.  An employee.  For one thing, it's spreading the "boycott" so far and wide as to be completely ineffectual, not to mention impossible.  I've seen some posts on other sites saying "Boycott all these Mormon businesses" - then when you look at the list it includes pretty much any company with a Mormon on the payroll.  Dell Computer having one Mormon VP doesn't make it a Mormon business and it's patently silly to say so. And I would think a business firing someone for making a political donation is illegal, or at least something they can sue over.

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by: KevNJ @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 19:26:54 PM CST

KEVNJ...He stepped down...

Was not fired.  It happens to be a very gay supportive theater group... even gay playwrights had called to protest. It is his right to donate, of course, .... certainly now I think people are rethinking  our PUBLIC donation laws!

But everyone involved in the theater had a right to be upset, too, if they chose to be and that would make for some intolberable working conditions.

That's what 'protest' is supposed to do...no matter how you do it...make someone uncomfortable with their DISCRIMINATION and BIGOTRY...so maybe even if they are not empathetic enough to understand why anyone should be hurt by having their Rights to a happy loving life taken away...they will FEEL SOMETHING...e.g. the 'discrimination' of their coworkers.

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 19:34:20 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I know he wasn't fired

But a lot of people seemed to want him fired and I don't think that's a tack we should be pushing, as it makes them "martyrs" and makes other people LESS sympathetic to our cause.  Furthermore, it just dilutes our effort to go after every Tom Dick and Harry like this.  You can't boycott every corporation that had one secretary give 50 dollars, because 99% of people are going to just think we're being silly and then they won't join in on the bigger targets.  If you want to slay the beast, you cut off its head, not its pinky toe.
Go after the bigwigs.    

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by: KevNJ @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 21:25:08 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Employees are agents of their employer

Representatives of the company they work for, especially VP's.
Kermit King
Occupation Management Consultant
Employer BOSTON CONSULTING GROUP vice-president and director in the Chicago office.
City Chicago
State or country IL
ZIP  
Position Support
Amount $25,000.00
Payment type  
Transaction date 10/27/2008
Committee name Protectmarriage.com - Yes On 8, A Project Of California Renewal
OBTW it's taxduductable!

I intend to look up IN, IL, and MI contributors and raise hell. Every single company I see on that list will get an email at least. Every person that hold a managment position is on my list. It's ON! Fight for your rights.

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by: plantwomyn @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 19:58:02 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Gay money

Hit them in their wallets! We need to compile lists. Phone numbers, employers and addresses. Find out who these people are and fight back. Call or email them or their boss, tell them you are boycotting. Get a client list from their company website and demand their clients stop using their products.
When I was a baby Dike I was told a story about Gay Money. In the 70's in maybe San Francisco, when they got payed, all the queers cashed their checks and got cash money. They them cut the corners off and some wrote "Gay Money" on their bills. They them either payed their bills in cash or redeposited it in the bank. The banks couldn't recurculate the cash. There was "gay" money everywhere.
Imagine the impact this would have. Write "Marrige Equality Now" on all your cash. I may get a stamp made. If we got together all over the country and did it in the same week all hell would brake loose. We sure as hell would have them looking over their shoulders. We're EVERYWHERE!

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by: plantwomyn @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 19:35:26 PM CST

"It's easier to beg forgiveness...

...than to ask permission!"

Scott Eckern, Marjorie Christofferson and Bill Mariott are merely playing C.M.A.  ["Cover My ASS!]  This backpedaling is disgusting and is being engaged simply because they GOT CAUGHT!  

I wonder what Actors' Equity and Equity Cares [their AIDS-support agency] would have to say about this?

What I'm having the most problem wrapping my head around are those who say, "These people have every right to vote the way they want, donate to whom they want, believe what they want.  Why boycott them?"  Mariott, in his "letter" states that Mariott Corporation is a Publicly-traded company... but never states, up or down, if he personally or the company gave money for PropH8 OR if he supports gay marriage.  Let's see what their stock does... and what their 1st Quarter report says.  MONEY TALKS!

MY "privately-spent" money is MINE!  It goes where I say it goes!

Surf over to http://signingforsomething.org and read the stories of those resigning from LDS.  Some are enraged, some are very pointed, many are very heartfelt and moving.

Those are the ones that get to me.  :(

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by: GraciesDaddy @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 23:19:47 PM CST