Obama camp's Warren talking points are out - as are Freeper comments

Told You So

This is EXACTLY what I was getting at earlier.

Keep it up gang, this is what the other side feeds on.

Typical Railroader-Tired, Broke, Hungry, Sick, and Mad

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by: labrat78 @ Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 22:48:15 PM CST

No you didn't.

You were on some far out bullshit about healing and idolizing Obama as if he was Jesus.

RainbowPhoenix and Hal on the other hand were much more level headed. You were just the other side of the extreme.

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by: PX3 @ Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 22:58:52 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Are we being uppity?

Sorry.  Perhaps we should just sit back while another administration kicks our teeth in...

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by: TannerIL @ Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 23:38:08 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Very Simple

Due to what Obama has done to toss the GLBT families overboard, nobody can trust him now.  Which is the next group he "supports" to be tossed over?
Enviro's, are you sure you will have support?  I would not expect it.

Pam,
J'aime ma Peau

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by: Blonde Pam @ Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 23:04:58 PM CST

don't forget

he also just tossed those in favor of reproductive freedom overboard with the Warren pick.

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 23:06:48 PM CST

[ Parent ]

?

what he do to throw lgbt families overboard?

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by: PX3 @ Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 23:09:03 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Oi.

I forgot about his 1 man/1 woman marriage quote. But if do mean something else tell me.

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by: PX3 @ Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 23:12:10 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Obama's love for Rick Warren and other homobigots

Well, I feel better now that I puked my guts out and fired off 6 emails to Obama staffers.  I may add that as disgusted as I feel right now, I am not in the least bit surprised.

I very reluctantly voted for Mr. Obama in 2008 and unless this travesty of a decision is reversed, he will not get my vote or other support in 2012.

I am certain that I will get bashed here for being rash and premature with my response, but so be it.  Mr. Obama knows what he is doing, and he knows what a giant slap in the face this is on DAY ONE to the entire GLBTQ community.  Talk about sending a strong message.  i have heard it loud and clear.

I can see nothing good for GLBTQ persons coming out of this administration.

PS: For the record, I am not a HRC supporter or a former Hillary Clinton supporter.  I am sure the Hillary camp are now all saying "I told you so".  And I fell like such a fool.


vanhattan

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by: vanhattan @ Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 23:06:53 PM CST

Too many extreme dire comments from this side

I am not surprised at the Freepers. It is par usual for them. But I am a little disturbed at what I hearing from folks here. Already you are ready to chuck him over. Already folks are pulling up their tents and declaring the game over.

Quit the hyperbole already. Personally while I am not in favor of what Obama did, I would rather have a president who is not stridently one-sided on all of the issues. I remember the tone of Bush and those who helped him get re-elected.

Remember Bob Jones telling Bush - "You don't owe liberals anything. They hate you and God."

I guess Obama sees himself as one trying to gain consensus from folks on two different sides of an issue. And yes this was a clumsy way to do it. But this extreme "see we told you so," and "this man can't be trusted because he doesn't agree totally with us" is the tone I would expect to hear from the right and not us.

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by: Alvin McEwen @ Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 23:21:50 PM CST

I agree with you there

The whole "abandon ship" hysteria or calling Obama a rabid homophobe is over the top. His problem is thinking "outreach" using this Tool is the way to show broad thinking. Warren  thinks civil rights can and should be repealed at the ballot box as an expression of "free speech" and would like women to have their wombs controlled by the government is worth a plug nickel. Those are extreme positions, and he has no need to cater to bigots just because he agrees global warming is real or came late to the HIV/AIDS prevention party.

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 23:44:07 PM CST

[ Parent ]

This is why this is a mistep

It's not that Obama endorses these ideas. Its that by putting Warren on the stage it gives the impression that he does,a nd this will push the right. I really question whether sometimes he gets Presidential politics here. Its one thing to do this as candidate Obama,b ut now as President Obama, if he sneezes, it's important.  He is now a head of state. He has to be clear about what he means by every action, and not just words. I don't thinkt hey get that they are not campaigning anymore. They get it ont he economic issues, but here their statement seems pretty clueless to how this will be  used as a kind of endorsement like the Yes on 8 used his misteps in CA as an endorsement.

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by: bruhrabbit3 @ Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 23:55:43 PM CST

[ Parent ]

You're saying that Warren came late to the HIV/AIDS prevention party, right?

It should probably be clear, but I just wanted to ask to make sure.

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by: JoshMich @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 11:12:00 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Lowering their expectations.

I think people are just lowering their expectations.  There were a lot of people who lived through the Bill Clinton's 1st term and had their hopes slammed.  It seems to be headed that way again.

During this last election we backed two promising candidates -- HRC and Obama.  The Hillary supporters jumped on board with Obama and we were all pretty much swept up in the message of change.  The idea that a new day was dawning.

We had a wake-up call on election day in 4 states. It's been troubling news since then.  

But hey!  At least we get to be in the parade.

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by: TannerIL @ Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 23:55:56 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yeah! Maybe if we ask really nicely and behave ourselves

He'll let us redecorate the back of the bus. We could do with some new curtains.

Pardon me, I need to drop off my shirts at the cleaners. Those pesky tire marks on the back!

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

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by: Keori @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 00:24:03 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Clear and Clouded

Already folks are pulling up their tents and declaring the game over.

I'm afraid those folks are just the ones who were in denial all along.

How anyone thought that it was ever the time to set up a tent in the first place and declare the game begun is beyond me.

Obama has been utterly clear from the start. Only those observing him seem to have had clouded vision.

Obama's political models have always been the Clintons. It was just happenstance that he ended up running in the primary against one of his models.

He is not for you. He is not for me. He is nor for the poor. He is not for those who suffer or struggle. He is not for the Iraqis or for the Palestinians or for Americans with dark skin. He is a member of the Mafia as much as Bush is; just a different family.

And he has never hidden any of this. So how can anyone be disappointed?

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by: Jim @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 00:59:48 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Too early to abandon ship

and our problem is that we need his support, and let's be honest he was the only choice because McCain chose to pander to the religious Right.

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by: avocado @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 02:41:02 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Clinton Really Screwed Us in '93

Add to that the anti-gay hate amendments voted in on Nov. 4, and I think you see the reason for the reaction. I agree that it is an over-reaction, but one that I think is both understandable and, quite frankly, good for the LGBT community. We have stood by for far too long and let ourselves be dumped on by our alleged allies. It is high time to fight back.

We will never get anywhere unless we show some toughness, and I think the protests of November 15 and the reaction to this appointment should be the starting point of a new push for our legislation. HRC and NGLT better not be resting after their statements, and where are Barney and Tammy on this? They should be on the phone this morning, demanding to know who made this choice and demanding action on our agenda as a means of proving Obama's commitment to a core constituency. That means the lesbian candidate for  the Labor Department, requests by Obama to the Congress for hate crimes legislation and an inclusive ENDA in the inaugural, and hearings on DADT forthwith. It is time to use the political capital we built during this campaign, not the time to take our football and go home.

My own letter to Mr. Beliveau (third one on this topic to someone in the Obama team):

Ever since I first learned that President-Elect Obama had invited noted bigot Rick Warren to a place of honor at his inauguration, I have been incensed. I did not think that anger could get worse until I read your talking points this morning. Quite frankly they are insulting and condescending to not just LGBT Americans, but to every American who believes in the inherent value and humanity of all our citizens.

I completely understand and applaud the President-Elect's desire to build bridges and be the President for all Americans. It was one of the main reasons that I supported Mr. Obama through the primaries and the general election, donating close to $2,000 and going without my summer vacation to ensure he was elected. Inviting the charlatan Rick Warren is not about being inclusive, however, it is about giving a role of honor to a man of dubious moral character.

You by now have been inundated with examples of Mr. Warren's bigotry and lies, not only about LGBT Americans, but about women's health care as well; I don't feel the need to repeat them. By his statements, however, Mr. Warren has demonstrated his complete and total disdain for all gay and lesbian Americans. He has outright lied about the LGBT community and the potential ramifications of our demands for equality. He has lied about the value of LGBT lives and our contributions to this country. Rick Warren, by supporting Proposition 8, declared his hatred of the Constitution of these United States, and its protection of minority rights. Mr. Warren instead supports a country where the tyranny of the majority is the rule of law, and any minority can be stripped of any civil right just because some "religious" leaders don't like them.

It is bad enough for Barack Obama, the private citizen, to "pal around" with people like Warren, but that is his freedom as an American. President Obama, on the other hand, represents this country and cannot afford to class himself with the worst of our nation. By selecting Mr. Warren, Mr. Obama is tarnishing his own image with the anti-gay hate preached by Warren, and signaling to all LGBT Americans that he shares Mr. Warren's disdain for our lives. In fact your talking points express that very disdain, when you kindly explain that Mr. Obama does not agree with Mr. Warren on LGBT issues. Those "issues," Mr. Beliveau, are our LIVES and they are not for political discussion.

What I didn't say is this: I'll accept Warren in exchange for legislation that is supported by the vast majority of Americans and has the added benefit of making people like Warren really pissed.  

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by: CPT_Doom @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 07:08:31 AM CST

[ Parent ]

You're getting this part wrong

I would rather have a president who is not stridently one-sided on all of the issues ... I guess Obama sees himself as one trying to gain consensus from folks on two different sides of an issue

See, all "sides" of an issue do not deserve equal consideration. All "opinions" are not equally valid. What's wrong with being "stridently one-sided" if the one side you're strident about is correct/right/moral/ethical? What's wrong with always being on the side of truth and light? Nothing, that's what ...

Now, you ask, "How do we know what constitutes "correct/right/moral/ethical"? That's something that we can, in good faith, debate. But I'll tell you right now that the "correct" answer does not include appeal to biblical authority or the Will of God. In fact, such appeals will automatically disqualify one from the debate.

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by: rx7ward @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 08:09:09 AM CST

[ Parent ]

The advantages vs. the disadvantages

Obviously the Obama team has weighed the pros and cons of having his anti-gay friend be front and center.  I think over the next 4 years we'll see our community used as a toss away, bargaining chip again and again.  

DADT is on it's way out, with or without Obama's help.  Once it's been removed we'll be told to be happy with that.

One thing about the talking points.  It infuriates me that they mention Asshat Warren's position on HIV/AIDS funding like it should make us, of all people, happy...cuz it's a gay disease you know.

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by: TannerIL @ Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 23:47:45 PM CST

Not just DADT

There's also the ENDA and the hate crimes expansions. He promised to sign those. As long as the senate republicans don't filibuster, we should get those too.

I am the lizard queen!

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by: RainbowPhoenix @ Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 23:54:51 PM CST

[ Parent ]

How hard...

How hard do you think Obama will fight for these things?  I'm being serious.

His main thing is that he can't do it alone, that we have to "carry the water."

With the struggles he's gonna face on other issues he's gonna have to use someone or some group as a bargaining chip to get others on board.

When he needs red state backing for an environmental program that hurts their state interests what will he offer up as a sacrifice?

I'm still not over the duplicitous position he took on Prop 8.  Each and every time he mentioned he wouldn't vote for Prop 8 he either started or ended with "But I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman".

So I'm curious, how hard do you think he's gonna work for anything that isn't already happening?  

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by: TannerIL @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 00:02:38 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Whether or not it's already happening

isn't my point. The threat of Bush's veto is the main reason we don't have these things already. With 59 democrats in congress, it can't be that hard to find at least one RINO to help us. All Obama needs to do is sign it.

I am the lizard queen!

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by: RainbowPhoenix @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 00:08:35 AM CST

[ Parent ]

You think they're not going to filibuster?

All they have to do is tell Sen. Reid (D-Cowardsville) that they might think about a filibuster and the spineless twit will roll over and take it off the table.

We get nothing.

# Duty, duty -- honor is, is --
Honor, Creideiki -- alertly
# Shared, is -- Honor #

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by: MileHighDawg @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 00:16:22 AM CST

[ Parent ]

59 democrats in the senate.

All we need is one RINO.

I am the lizard queen!

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by: RainbowPhoenix @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 00:25:04 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Don't count on DADT

I hope he wouldn't actually veto it if it managed to get to his desk attached to some obscure bill naming a federal building. But he might if it meant placating some group of rabid "christians" throwing a hissy fit over some other issue. I know he won't do anything to help it get there.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

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by: Keori @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 00:26:33 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Attachments

Can I ask a question that might seen a bit ignorant? What does it mean to say that a bill is 'attached' to another? I would understand if they were relating to similar issues, but why are bills attached when they have nothing to do with each other? And, when they are seemingly unrelated (like in the example above), why do you have to sign both or none at all?

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by: Katie @ Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 22:06:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I'm not too worried

Maybe I'm delusional, perhaps just plain stupid.

But after reading and doing a little research, maybe I see the wisdom. Admittedly I do have to look out over the landscape and not just this instance.

I do wonder if all the folks with their panties in bunch over some ceremonial tid bits will be as quick to publicly compliment Obama when he and his folks deliver what we want?

By all means email and write letters to the inauguration committee. But will you also be as quick to lobby your congressional representative when the time comes? By the way the time is now! If everyone takes on the personal promise to be engaged now and for the long haul, we will get there so much sooner.

Unfortunately the sad truth is NGLTF, HRC, and every state advocacy agency has tens of thousands of emails. But yet it is always a committed few that are out there doing the work.

We (as a community) are all too quick to point the blame to others, ala Prop 8. But I have not seen or heard about how well the GLBT community turned out at the ballot box. If it's less than 100% is that acceptable? At tops I think there are figures out there that would suggest that maybe 80% of the GLBT community bothered to vote. To me that is not acceptable.

Just a thought

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by: goddesspdx @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 00:52:05 AM CST

He's gonna need a bigger bus

Obama has made some pretty nice anti-progressive, anti-environment (Salazar, anyone?), and anti-LGBT decisions, and he isn't even in office yet.  Yeah, he may be better than McSame, but I had hoped for a little bit of sanity, but that seems not to be.  Why should anyone be surprised that he is pandering and seeking to suck at the Teat of Fundie?

I did like the "engage all sides of the faith discussion" bit.  Why not leave out the fricken "faith discussion" and address Americans?  Don't we count?

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by: Badger3k @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 00:53:17 AM CST

To explain

The bus reference meant to continue with

"...for the number of people he wants to throw under it"

Sorry, left that out.

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by: Badger3k @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 00:54:23 AM CST

[ Parent ]

no, we don't count

as long as you don't have a piece of wood to call "god," and a suspension of rational thought to call religion, you (and I) don't count. it's great that we have a President who has worked as a professor before though.

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by: avocado @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 02:24:34 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Gains for LGBT equality will come in spite of Obama, not because of him.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 01:00:29 AM CST

Well, what a surprise. . .President "Separate but Equal" Obama

and his campaign staff can crow all they want about this being the most "inclusive" inaugeral ever. . .and our lives are represented by a marching band?

No offense to you musicians around here, but this smacks a little to me of letting the house faggots play music at the party, but not eat at the table. . .or decorate the house for the ball, but not get to dance with our spouses. And then telling all of the guests how "liberal" you are cuz you let the house faggots entertain for the FIRST TIME EVAH. . .

The fact remains that Obama has openly declared that he is a marriage segregationist and that he supports a heterosupremacist agenda of LGBT family separation from the rest of society. That isn't inclusion.

And I could give a rat's ass about Warren's work with poverty. He isn't the only person or church which campaigns to help the needy or the afflicted - the gay community was helping our own for 20 years before Warren discovered AIDS in Africa. Shouldn't that have earned a gay clergy invocation?

I'm over it - I was unhappy with the McClurkin affair, and yet I ended up contributing to Obama's campaign and supporting his candidacy. And here we are, before he even takes office, reminding us that the house faggots will be lucky if the new master throws us a few crumbs.  

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by: kevinbgoode @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 01:33:29 AM CST

And one more thing. . .where am I expected to find "common ground"

with people who deny me my rights as a citizen of this country?

This is definitely the very last time I will ever vote for or support a candidate who claims he is for equality and yet embraces a segregationist approach to my relationships and life.  

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by: kevinbgoode @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 01:41:04 AM CST

I just read at Daily Kos

They have a poll for how to react to Warren to show our disapproval

Turning Our Backs got 75% of the votes.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 03:27:45 AM CST

Keep the pressure on

I've sent an email to emmett@pic2009.org and left a message about Warren at change.gov saying essentially that Warren is a religious extremist and that if Warren participates in the inauguration in any capacity, the President-elect can say whatever he wants in his inaugural address, I won't be listening.

Come up with your own words, and keep the messages coming.

What a day, what a day for an auto-da-fe

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by: revbob @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 03:28:10 AM CST

How freepers react to my anger/sadness is SO immaterial

These are my feelings, and I have every right to them.
The anger is palpable
The sadness is harder, seems I cried that out in the eighties.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 03:31:24 AM CST

Dear PE Obama, I have an idea to make this even more "inclusive" and

reaching out to people of all faith communities - here's the letter I sent:

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/...

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by: Scott_NC @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 07:49:05 AM CST

Gay Rights are included and represented by a BAND?????

No disrespect to the band, and I am proud of their presence there, but....

..My name is Maura Henessey, and I didn't come here to die at the hands of some homobigot that one of Warren's speeches about my love for a woman being the equivalent of any number of reprehesnible sisns.

For those with short memories, a year ago a man enflamed by and motivited by reactionary evangelical rhetoric opened fire in s UU church becuase they were supportive of us.

Would not that UU pastor have been more symbolic of the healing that America needs?

Rick Warren will represent the evangelical ideals of God's laws in America by asking for that vengeful deity's blessing and guidance for the Obama administration.

The LGBT movement's dead, disenfranchised, maimed, raped, murdered, economically marginalised will be represented by a band.

We ought to be more fittingly represented by eight pallbearers carrying a coffin draped with a Rainbow flag.

Or, even better, a few protestors unrolling a huge rainbow flag, one about 40 ft long,  from the roof of a nearby building whilst Warren prays.

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 08:27:55 AM CST

The writer of the talking points email

clearly represents the Obama administration views on LGBT equality, note that he mentions "what's important" is that Warren agrees with Obama on the other issues. We are not included under "social justice" We are not important. Except as campaign ATMS.

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by: DilworthDem @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 08:48:26 AM CST

And I love the talking pointabout how "open" and "inclusive" this will be

How on earth do you promote openness and inclusivity by giving the anchor spot to a man who considers those principles inherently evil?

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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by: QScribe @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 09:54:13 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Cool your jets

We all see what an abject failure the Bush foreign policy has been when he referred to Iran and North Korea as part of the axis of evil and failed to enter into any meaningful discussions with their leaders. Belatedly he has taken the advice of great statesmen of the past that open, yet uncompromising dialogue with those with whom we may strongly disagree is the best way to make progress in obtaining our foreign policy goals.

In the same way, when it comes to civil rights issues, giving anyone who fails to totally agree with you the cold shoulder, failing to enter into a dialogue with them, will only raise their ire and increase their resistance to anything positive you might wish to do. Rick Warren is more progressive on many social issues than most who hold similar religious views. Building trust and confidence in these common areas can lead to a more meaningful dialogue when gay civil rights issues come into play. The idea that gay marriage would somehow interfere with religious free speech for example, can easily be refuted once he is willing to listen to what the facts have to say.

So developing this working relationship with Rick Warren is a great idea, as far as I can see.

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by: Bill Ware @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 08:55:43 AM CST

Unacceptable

Absolutely unacceptable, regardless of Obama commitment or lack of commitent to eqaulity for the LGBT citizens of the US. This is just deplorable. There is no reason a national spotlight and an audience of millions should be given to a person who continues the same lies and religious based bigotry.

I am sinful, I am sick, I am an abomination, this is the message pushed by the religious bigots over and over again, and it has caused severe, terrible, and lasting to damage to LGBT youth across America. It has led to depression, and violence against them. It is outrageous that anyone who contributes demonizing and degredation of teenagers who are already suffering under the stress of simply growing up.

Providing this man a platform before a national audience is providing validation to his religious based descrimination. If Obama wants to be inclusive of the religious community I am fine with that, but there are other, more qualified people he could have chosen, not someone who perpetuates the hate that has lead to depression and suffering of thousands of innocent human beings across this nation.

watashi no yomeiri wa doko desu ka

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by: belfrieboi @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 11:42:58 AM CST