Is a Warren uninvite really impossible to contemplate?

Yes We Can - Get Rid Of Warren, That Is!

Obama is a politician and this is a calculated political move. The gay community needs to understand this in terms of politics and respond to it in a political fashion. The best way to do that is to light such a fire under Obama that this sort of political calculation (the gays will just have to swallow this) is too costly for him to make. Maybe if we do it fast enough the good Pastor will be given the hook.

Jim Kelly, Cherry Grove, NY

---

by: skeptic49 @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 05:18:41 AM CST

Does saddleback also not accept unrepentant adulterers or those living

the divorce lifestyle?

Same shit all the time

---

by: Scott_NC @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 05:32:22 AM CST

I hear they DO accept unrepentant gluttons ...

... of course, that's just a rumor.

... where Same Gender Love rules.

---

by: TaylorSiluwe @ Wed Dec 24, 2008 at 07:54:21 AM CST

[ Parent ]

This is one of those moments when...

...I believe we, as an LGBT community, need to "control the extent to which people can publicly manifest antigay sentiment."

I am with those who believe Pastor Rick Warren should pay a cost for openly manifesting anti-LGBT sentiments in comparing gays to pedophiles and adults who participate in incestuous relationships. I'm also with those who believe and President-elect Obama should pay a price if he doesn't uninvite this a pastor who has openly manifested anti-LGBT sentiments a place of high honor in his inauguration ceremony in giving the event's invocation.

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau

---

by: Autumn Sandeen @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 05:40:46 AM CST

Obama is not our friend

This was the first year in forever that I did not vote for a presidential candidate.  While I am not surprised that Obama has tossed gays under the bus, I am a little shocked at how quickly and boldly he did it.  It won't be the last time.

Linda, San Antonio, TX

---

by: grumpyboomer @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 05:41:08 AM CST

Wolf in Sheep's Clothing

It's not judgmental to say that what the Bible calls a sin is a sin, that's just telling the truth.

No, Rick Warren & Saddleback - that's just you giving your opinion on what the Bible says. Presenting personal opinion as absolute truth is arrogance in the extreme. If you want to make that kind of pronouncement and expect LGBTs to take you seriously I recommend that you first either rise on the third day or turn water into wine. Otherwise as far as I'm concerned you're just a dangerous fraud.

____________________________________
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.

---

by: tavdy79 @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 05:41:52 AM CST

Rachel does it again

Another great show. People are finding more and more about Warren and Saddleback every day it seems.

Not that it will matter in this case - Obama has painted himself into a corner and will not budge on this. Pam's calculus is correct - he's quite willing to dismiss the support of the LGBT community and its allies rather than piss off the fundies and Xtians. . .

. . . who will never accept him anyway as a group - but I guess if he swings another 15-20% of the evangelical vote in 2012 he wind again.

---

by: kegbot1 @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 05:59:47 AM CST

Rachel said something interesting

How come none of the questions the press asked were about Warren? Was there already pressure on the press? Why did they so willingly fall into the line? Or is this just a symptom of us being not news-worthy?

---

by: avocado @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 06:31:26 AM CST

Keep the heat on

Obama made a political calculation and despite the controversy it will probably be to politically expensive too uninvite Warren. However we need to turn up the heat and keep it on for the next 31 days to make sure Obama recalibrates his political equations in the future.

He should have taken note of the anger and nation wide protests after the passage of Prop 8. Gays are mad as hell and we aren't going to take it anymore. We will no longer just grumble in the corner when a politician throws us under the bus.

31 days of loud controversy culminating in a silent back turning protest during the invocation will be the price he has to pay for this miscalculation. And it will happen again if he so cavalierly disrespects us like that again. We will never again let ourselves be taken for granted.

---

by: Stephanie @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 06:56:59 AM CST

Warren appears to be jealous

of how much sex gays supposedly have.  He would like to have sex with lots of beautiful women, but his religion won't let him.  Talk about denial.  Have you seen the guy?  If a princess were to kiss him, he'd turn into a prince. (meow)

The whole gay marriage thing is pretty monogamous. Wouldn't Warren want to promote that?

Linda, San Antonio, TX

---

by: grumpyboomer @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 07:01:12 AM CST

Excellent point, Linda

I honestly believe that ALL men have desires to sleep with everyone they find attractive; it's one of the more charming side-effects of testosterone.  However, one of the things that keeps men in sexually monogomous relationships are those wedding rings, the idea that you made a promise to your spouse in front of God and everyone that you would "cleave only unto thee," or words to that effect.

I don't suppose Ann Curry followed up with that idea?  Would've been nice ...

"There are two kinds of people in this world -- the kind who separate the world into two kinds of people, and those who don't."  -- Gloria Steinem

---

by: red7eric @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 11:16:28 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Monogamy for Atheists

Promise in front of God?  Unnecessary.  What keeps me in a sexually monogamous relationship is the fact that my wife will kill me if I stray.  That and C.S.I.

Oh, and that it is wrong to break a promise to someone you love.  Isn't that simple?  I think people who need mythology to keep their morals in check are mighty weak.

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

---

by: RadicalRuss @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 20:59:13 PM CST

[ Parent ]

No, not impossible, we can contemplate it ...

... and hope springs eternal.

   Just like he said Warren invited him to speak in his church knowing they strongly disagreed on issues, Obama sees nothing wrong with having him give the Invocation. He seems set in his decision. This is the man we elected. The smart guy. This is the man who said he will engage EVERYBODY.  Maybe we didn't think he meant the intolerant Holy Homophobes, but apparently he did.  

  To say he's thrown us under the bus while he's still President-Elect is the worst possible hyperbole.

As for Wright comparison -- pre vs post election.  

  Remember, the Obama team knew we'd be pissed.  They did it anyway.  It's just possible, there are some things coming down the pike that will piss of the right that he's just buttering them up for.  I'm leaning in that direction.  We'll see.  

  I still say let the man get into office before we gather up the villagers, light torches, and 'attempt' run him outta town because one decision went wildly against us.  

... where Same Gender Love rules.

---

by: TaylorSiluwe @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 07:49:43 AM CST

Also Pro-Heat

I think that there is a difference between engaging those who have opinions different than one's own and offering them a highlighted forum, thereby legitimizing them.

Given that Obama has no senior adviser who is GLBT it would not surprise me if it never occured to his advisers that this would be controversial.  His choices for Cabinet posts do not include anyone from out community. (I am aware that we have a few third/fourth tier appointments, but view them as our being assigned to the "Kiddy Table".)  And the Warren decision seems to me to need to be viewed in the context of those appointments and of the statements made post-election that we should not expect any movement on DOMA, DADT, etc. until 2010 at earliest.

I believe that the only way we can have our positions supported is by doing what we are doing - attempting to increase the hear on Obama.  At the least, it will make it harder for him to throw us under the bus next time.

---

by: silverkjk @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 08:22:37 AM CST

[ Parent ]

How do we know Warren hasn't had sex with men?

That's the M.O. of these 'phobes: Denounce everyone else while gettin' a little somethin' somethin' on the all-too-famous "down low." (it's not just a black thing.) That's a very 70's look the creep has.

But enough about him.

Pam I heard your interview with Wayne Sutton and I don't share your optimism (to put it mildly) that Obama will do the right thing at the end of the day. This disaster shows he's not as slick a politician as some would imagine because it could have been easily avoided.

He's a very mediocre straight black man who doesn't look any further than the tip of his nose.

---

by: David Ehrenstein @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 08:11:40 AM CST

Wow, EXTREMELY dismissive ...

... of the tea-leaf reading ability of the team who ran the best campaign in history.

    But, maybe you know better.  Who the heck am I to judge from afar?

... where Same Gender Love rules.

---

by: TaylorSiluwe @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 08:54:15 AM CST

[ Parent ]

One of the reasons I've never supported Obama

is precisely this penchant of his for getting into bed with every shithead minister he meets.  Wright (with whom I agree on a lot of issues, but never mind that), McClurkin, Kmiec, that Kirbyjohn Whosis cat from Texas, Rick Warren...  If a guy (note that none of them are women preachers) claims to speak for God, Obama is fine with him.  Period, end of any possible discussion.  

Obama says clearly in his book that he "prays" and seeks divine guidance for every decision on every important issue.  What could that possibly mean except that he gives undue weight to crackpots who claim to have the ear of God?  Who would you turn to for divine guidance if not preachers?

There have been signs of this from the very beginning.  Aside from what he says in print, there was the McClurkin fiasco (he never uninvited McClurkin despite the loss of gay support, did he?); the apparently unshakable commitment to unconstitutional bribes to churches and ministers, er, faith-based initiatives; "God is in the mix" on Prop 8; and now this unholy mess.  

We've had eight years of an idiot president who claims that God guides him in his decisions.  We're in for four more.  (And I do mean four.  With his conservative cabinet appointments, going back on campaign promises, etc., Obama has alienated a large part of his progressive base.  It's not at all hard to predict he'll be a one-term president.  I hope.)

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

---

by: QScribe @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 09:42:03 AM CST

[ Parent ]

We don't want Warren? What are we willing to do about it?

Whine, post sone destined to be deleted emails and wait for Joe to make it the theme of a black tie and tails fundraiser?

Or are we willing to go out, disrupt, protest and make this a costly choice, image wise?

NOW could certainly be approached to be out there with us. Reverend Warren and his allies are not particularly egalitarian about women.

After three threads on the subject, my guess is whine....

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

---

by: MauraHennessey @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 08:36:07 AM CST

You go, Maura ...

... and this may surprise some, or seem like a flip-flop for me, but I can get behind this.

  Whining is just pathetic, and, to use that tired phase... "so gay".  

  Though I still believe Obama's being pragmatic and we should let him actually BE president before we turn on him, I've always been a fan of civil disobedience.  Sometimes you gotta shake sh*t up to get things done.  

    But don't disrespect Obama, this historic wondrous event in January. In my eyes, thats a cutting off our nose situation.  I personally can't respect people who would disrespect that event -- even my own beloved gay brothers and sisters.

      However the day after, we should show them all that Hell hath no fury .....

... where Same Gender Love rules.

---

by: TaylorSiluwe @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 09:06:55 AM CST

[ Parent ]

He's the one who has disrepected us

and all of African-American history -- which is inextricable from Gay American history.  

---

by: David Ehrenstein @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 10:37:23 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I don't want praise; I don't want pity

This is why I think that every gay person and straight ally on the National Mall should beging to hum (loudly) the tune of "I Am What I Am" during Warren's little speech.

If there was enough humming to be heard by the cameras putting this out over the teevee machine, it would be something that wouldn't disrupt Obama's big day, thereby cutting off our nose to spite our face, but certainly something that the pundits and commentators (some might say "newsmakers," these days) to discuss for days to come.

"There are two kinds of people in this world -- the kind who separate the world into two kinds of people, and those who don't."  -- Gloria Steinem

---

by: red7eric @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 11:22:18 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Hum. Hmmm....

 I like this idea.  Low-key, but if done right it could be quite effective.  

... where Same Gender Love rules.

---

by: TaylorSiluwe @ Wed Dec 24, 2008 at 07:52:02 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Potential Ideas:

I am with you Maura, we cannot simply protest vocally, but what is the best method for really recording our anger? Should we go with the angry outburst (a la the Prop 8 protests) or the witty route (like when, right after Stonewall, members of a gay group brought coffee and donuts to the offices of a magazine the printed an anti-gay article, asking staff members to sit down and talk to a real life homosexual).

I think the reality is that we cannot expect this invitation to be withdrawn, UNLESS the vaguely anti-semitic lines of Warren's and his support for the assassination of Iran's President get traction. The truth is we don't count for enough to get him uninvited just for us. Remember, not only is Obama trying to reach out to hard-core fundies, but he has a lot of religious people in his base who, up til now, have seen Warren as a progressive preacher. Perhaps Warren's interview with Curry will change some of their minds, but he is likely to retain enough of his popularity that it will piss more people off to disinvite him than to invite him.

So what to do? I have a few ideas:

Shut down DC for the inaugural? This would have the biggest impact and be sure to get press attention, but would also piss off a lot of Obama supporters who are not pro-gay enough to care about Warren, and that might not be good for bridge building.

Sympathy Cards or other Mourning On the wittier side, we could express our outrage in a public mourning spectacle - mourning Obama's commitment to equality of course. The idea that Obama doesn't really believe in the basic equality of LGBT people is hyperbole (even the civil union stance is simply a bad route to the ultimate end of equality, as opposed to Warren's out and out bigotry), but the idea is to drive home the outrage and disappointment of the LGBT community.

So we could gather sympathy cards, like you'd send to a funeral, from LGBT people from all over the country and deliver them to Obama (or create some symbolic delivery), inviting the press, of course.

We could also hold a public mourning service of some kind - very ecumenical - to mourn the passing of hope for the LGBT community.

Warren-focused Protests Another route is to go after Rickyboy himself. I think there are already traditional protests planned for his church, and that's a good start.

One idea I thought of was to have thousands of donuts delivered to Saddleback, with the note "You can have your donuts back, we'd like our marriage rights instead." Making them stale donuts might even be funnier.

I know there are ideas about turning backs to Warren, or unfurling rainbow flags during his invocation, but I think we need something with more oomph and more impact.  

---

by: CPT_Doom @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 09:42:21 AM CST

[ Parent ]

The donuts are cool ...

... and whimsical, and says that after all this BS we've put up with, we still have our sense of humor.  I totally like this.

... where Same Gender Love rules.

---

by: TaylorSiluwe @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 10:05:23 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I like the doughnuts idea too

the staler the better

---

by: Rebelcat @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 10:11:47 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Stale Donuts

Brilliant.

"There are two kinds of people in this world -- the kind who separate the world into two kinds of people, and those who don't."  -- Gloria Steinem

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by: red7eric @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 11:23:27 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Skip the Donuts

A poster at HuffPost said it well:

Money is power.
Withholding money is power too.
Money speaks.
Why aren't all of us speaking with our money?

We've had decades of marching, writing letters, and doing "clever" political protest stunts, and we've "progressed" at a snail's pace.   When will we get angry ENOUGH to take a more definitive stand against these 2 American Myths?

* Equal Protection Under the Law (except for gays)

* Separation of Church & State (except when the law applies to gays or a woman's womb)

Decades MORE of Psychological Abuse? - OR - Stonewall.  Nationwide.  NOW!

---

by: John Bisceglia @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 15:10:30 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Ooo, donuts!

Since his evidence that he's not homophobic was giving gay protesters donuts and water, I really like this idea.

---

by: Darkrose @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 20:48:09 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Okay, I'm going to send a dozen

Anybody else going to join me?  As soon as I can (tomorrow) I'm going to get some of those day olds and mail them to:
Saddleback Church
1 Saddleback Pkwy
Lake Forest, CA 92630
I'll include a nice note too! ;)

---

by: Rebelcat @ Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 09:18:09 AM CST

[ Parent ]

My e-mail to the Rickster

Hey, Rick:

(No, I am not going to give you any special titles, because I don't think you deserve any)

Please, pray tell, explain this?

"Because membership in a church is an outgrowth of accepting the Lordship and leadership of Jesus in one's life, someone unwilling to repent of their homosexual lifestyle would not be accepted at a member at Saddleback Church."

I'm reminded that Jesus had more than a bit to say about divorce, and on the same web page, you all expand on what Jesus said by extending the right to divorce to cases of abuse (which Jesus did NOT include). However, people divorce, and not for the reasons you specify, but you don't tell people that they have to repent of their "divorce lifestyle." Conversely, Jesus said NOTHING about homosexuality. NOTHING.

So, I gather, it's possible for a person to be a person living in a flaming "divorce lifestyle" (i.e., married and divorced and remarried, in a divorce not contemplated by Jesus as being righteous, at least according to the documentation we've got), but you're telling GLBT people that they can't have the same kinds of intimate relationships that us heterosexual people can have. Even though Jesus said nothing about it. RIGHT.

I'm also reminded that Jesus, you know, the guy you claim to follow as God, he continually made a point of hanging out with the lowest of the low in his society--tax collectors, prostitutes and notorious sinners. He was the Son of God and he wasn't tainted by being with his fellow human beings, why do you think you and your church are so freaking special that you can exclude because someone cannot abandon the "homosexual lifestyle"?

As a woman who dated a gay, in the closet, guy from my church back in the early 1980s, a guy I loved, a guy I thought would be a great husband and father, I can't even begin to tell you the devastation I felt when he came out to me. It changed my life, though, in a really good way, because I was forced to consider that not everyone is straight and that people who are not heterosexual are entitled to have the same kind of lives and love that I get because I'm straight.

As for the Obama thing, I wish you'd withdraw your name. Personally, as an American who takes the Constitution seriously, I think that having an invocation and benediction at this event to commemorate the inauguration of a president is wrong. It violates the spirit of the separation of church and state. Not only that, it's frankly divisive. You're on record as basically saying that various groups of people are hell-bound if they don't believe just like you do. No Thanks. That kind of divisiveness is absolutely Not Necessary in America.

As for your crap about how same-sex marriage is the same as pedophilia and polygamy, you're so wrong. I'm not a resident of the state of California but I continue to suggest to my California friends that they put forward selected state constitutional amendments for 2010. Among them: "make Rick Warren's marriage illegal." Then, sir, maybe you'll understand why your stand is so much horseshit, and why taking away marriage from gays and lesbians through the ballot box is so incredibly wrong.

Give it up, Rick, millions are on to your act and we don't like it.

Mirele
Mesa, AZ, USA

P.S. Oh yeah, as a woman, I'm also on to your "womb control" rhetoric. You can just STFU about my private medical decisions. If I get an abortion (which, btw, I've never had one), it's none of your business.  

---

by: Mirele @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 09:21:39 AM CST

Bravo, Mirele!!

   I just hope the sweaty waste of flesh actually reads it.

... where Same Gender Love rules.

---

by: TaylorSiluwe @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 10:12:16 AM CST

[ Parent ]

great letter

It's nice to see that at least one commenter has taken some direct action.

---

by: Rebelcat @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 10:13:54 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Do any of you realise that we are being used?

President elect Obama is nothing if not a clever politicisn.

He scores with the fundies if Warren gives the invocation.

He scores even bigger if we scream about it and he stands up to us.

This bit of wisdom is not my own, a friend from the city just stopped in for some coffee and she is herself a gifted political animal....

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

---

by: MauraHennessey @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 10:10:00 AM CST

Makes sense to me ...

... for he is a gifted politician.  

But I also know we won't be able to form any concrete conclusions about President Obama anytime soon, which is why I advocate getting better control of the fiery rhetoric before we burn ourselves with it.

... where Same Gender Love rules.

---

by: TaylorSiluwe @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 10:17:46 AM CST

[ Parent ]

No he DOESN'T score even bigger

The inauguration has become entirely about Rick Warren. And nothing else.  

---

by: David Ehrenstein @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 10:39:52 AM CST

[ Parent ]

David, it shows that he is not beholden to the liberal secularists

God is in the mix, man and a woman, faith based intitiative, etc...
and FISA

He is distancing himself from the liberal tag.


I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

---

by: MauraHennessey @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 10:46:19 AM CST

[ Parent ]

"President elect Obama is nothing if not a clever politicisn"

I can't agree, Maura.  He is a very smart campaigner, which is not quite the same thing.

If he's so smart, why is doing everything he can to alienate the people who supported him?  Clintonites and even Bushies(!) in the Cabinet--and no one who is progressive or just liberal, no action on DADT, waffling on the war, choosing an anti-gay womb-control advocate to initiate his administration...  (How long has it been since an avowed bigot has been invited to speak the invocation at a presidential inauguration?  I'm guessing it hasn't happened since before the Civil War.)

I'm already confidently predicting major Democratic losses in the midterm election.  They may not actually lose Congress, but they will pay for his flannel-mouthed double-dealing.  And how hard is it to guess that he'll be a one term president?

Schadenfreude is poor consolation, but it will be fun watching him self-immolate.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

---

by: QScribe @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 17:49:23 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Think about sending an email to Obama's transition team

Here's where I went to voice my disgust at the Warren choice.
http://change.gov/page/content...

---

by: Rebelcat @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 10:20:35 AM CST

I sent one too.

And also wrote to the Transition Team folks via the e-mails Pam provided to us when the story broke.

"There are two kinds of people in this world -- the kind who separate the world into two kinds of people, and those who don't."  -- Gloria Steinem

---

by: red7eric @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 11:26:03 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Hold our own inclusive inaugurations

Since Geoff Kors announced his boycott of the party in DC, I'd like to see a rally of our own take place in San Francisco.

Kors has to do some work (IM humble O) to redeem himself post No on 8 and he could make a difference by organizing a rally right here in SF to take place on the day of Obama's christening.  

It could be an instructive way to show Obama what it means to be inclusive, inspirational and proud.  It might also be an excellent way to help Obama understand the difference between bigotry and diversity.  

Apparently the man that many of the gays devoted their time and energy and money to help elect as the replacement for Bush isn't aware of the difference between those two concepts.  

Anyway...at the very least holding our own inauguration rally and invocation (I picture a prayer by one of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence and some defiant speech from Pollo del Mar) would serve to rally us together around our resistance to what appears to be the status quo...more hYpe than hOpe.

---

by: Patrick @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 10:59:18 AM CST

In the end

I believe this was simply raw political calculus by Obama. They factored in our outrage. We are the group of choice of this era to sacrifice on the altar of political expediency. Beat up on the gays to make inroads with the evangelicals because we have nowhere else to turn politically. We are boxed in and Obama knows it. Does not make it fair but it's where we are right now.

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by: DilworthDem @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 11:06:38 AM CST

time for gays and atheists to come together?

It has become increasingly obvious to me that the gay community and atheist community have many common goals and clearly many common enemies. I realize that not all atheists are pro-gay and not all gays are pro-atheist. Unfortunately, we don't exactly have the best track record of making each other feel welcome, but I think that can be overcome. See http://gretachristina.typepad....

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by: vjack @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 11:35:53 AM CST

Atheists (of which I am proudly one)

will listen to us a lot sooner than the McClurkins, Warrens and Obamas will.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

---

by: QScribe @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 17:51:08 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Atheists, Pagans, and possibly Jews

I've never heard of an atheist or Pagan who was truly anti-gay. A little culturally squicked, perhaps, but never anti-gay in the "my bible says you're going to hell" fashion.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

---

by: Keori @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 20:29:32 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Add the cannabis community

Drug law reform, gay rights, separation of church and state, all at their core are about treating all people equally.

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

---

by: RadicalRuss @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 21:24:19 PM CST

[ Parent ]

IF he is there...HERE IS THE PROTEST....

Wear a BLACK ARM-BAND: THREE HOURS. Noon to 3PM .on Jan 20, 2009 To Protest Rick Warren.

Pledge to wear a black arm band on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2009 from noon to three p.m. EST (make the adjustments from Atlantic to Pacific zones). In this sense, the inauguration will have been completed, and the parade already passed.

This is great, a nice, quiet protest without violence or words of hate.  Just a black arm band to remind us all that we're still not fully equal
and President-elect Obama's actions have not gone unnoticed.

(Suggested by Raymond Sawyer on change.org... I like it. It is meaningful and easy and VISIBLE! These hours, and the display coincide with the military display on Good Friday.)

I hope the Marching Band gets the word,  and will do so too, as well as all who go and want to protest without disruption.

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

---

by: Orion45 @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 11:41:01 AM CST

Pam, if Rick Warren is asked....

to not give the invocation, that is not being UNinvited, it is being DISinvited. You know, the same way HRC disinvited Margaret Cho to the 2004 Democratic convention for fear that she might offend some Republicans (I say it's about time some of them were very offended, as I have been for years by many of their actions.) For that and other slights, I would never again support HRC or give them a dime. The other slights include, but are not limited to, NOT supporting Hillary Clinton for US Senate from New York in 2000 - they supported Al D'Amato because they thought he would win. The refused to support out candidate Jim Neal for US Senate from North Carolina (your state) in the primary. Thankfully, Kaye Hagan ran and beat Dole, however, that is not the issue when it comes to HRC. They also supported Susan Collins for US Senate from Maine as opposed to her Democratic opponent, Tom Allen. They also supported Gordon Smith in my state of Oregon for US Senate. HRC tends to go whichever way the wind blows. They also didn't do jack sh*t about a ground campaign for prop 8 in California - sorry to get on my anti-HRC rant, but that's how I feel about them.  
Anyway, "uninvited" means not invited; "disinvited" means having your invitation withdrawn.

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by: jiminportlandoregon @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 12:15:45 PM CST

LIGHT UP THE NIGHT

I looked their wasn't an event tonight for my city, I'm wondering if other Blenders are participating?

I'll put a votive out on my porch tonight

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 14:05:23 PM CST

here's the link for light up the night events in each state

   http://jointheimpact.wetpaint....

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 14:17:43 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Already -5 at 8pm

and we're due for 20" of snow tomorrow. Sorry, love; with this head cold, I'm staying inside with warm blankies!

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners

Click here for DADT photobook

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by: Louise @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 19:56:39 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Warren = O.J.

Inviting Rick Warren to speak at the Presidential inauguration is tantamount to inviting O.J. Simpson to speak at a women's shelter.

Evan Wolfson guesstimates we will have Federal Marriage Equality in about 30 years (which would almost certainly require equality in employment and the military also). So we need to either EMBRACE the fact that most of us over 40 will NOT see Full Federal Equality in our lifetime and remain "patient" as our civil rights crawl to the finish line... - OR - We could begin to TREAT the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT as it treats US.

Two American Myths:

* Equal Protection Under the Law (except for gays)
* Separation of Church & State (except when the law applies to gays or a woman's womb)

When Obama invited this "christian" to his speak at his inauguration, he invited a man who believes the Q-community are INFERIOR; "less than". Let's quit sugar-coating these turds! Being asked to "respect other's opinions" doesn't fly when those "opinions" are harmful lies about an entire segment of the population. Those "opinions" are tantamount to the extremely offensive beliefs and ideas our country once had about "negros" and "wives", words and ideas that would NEVER FLY TODAY at an inauguration.

Words and ideas that would incite riots today.

The National Equality Tax Protest will be on Wednesday, April 15, 2009.

Decades MORE of Psychological Abuse? - OR - Stonewall.  Nationwide.  NOW!

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by: John Bisceglia @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 15:05:52 PM CST

Any ideas?

In addition to demanding that lgbt people pray away the gay, he also thinks that Jews who have not accepted Jesus will burn in Hell, that evolution doesn't exist, and that abortion and embryonic stem cell research are murder.

Some ideas about this:

We should be publicizing what Obama has done and be sure to mention all of the above, not just the LGBT part of it so that we can build an Obama Opposition Coalition which might topple Mr. Warren from the inaugural stage.

What kind of protests could be done either in Washington over the entire period of the inaugural festivities?

What kind of protest, street theater, or events could be planned around the nation could be scheduled for the same time as the actual inaugural ceremony during which Bigot Warren will speak? Give people an alternative to watching the ceremony.

If I don't have anything else to do, I will go to a movie, take a nap, or just clean my house. One thing for sure is that I will not be watching the inauguration and I won't be watching or listening to Mr Obama's inaugural address.

If anything, I might consider watching it until I have seen Mr. Warren give his invocation and then turn it off.

In any event, I'm quite interested to hear what others think would be an alternative activity on inauguration day.

If it would happen, I'd love to see thousands of people turn their back as Mr. Obama passes in his inaugural parade and - better yet - moon him as he delivers his inaugural address.

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. -- John F. Kennedy (inspired by Dante's Inferno)

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by: oldbrit @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 15:31:56 PM CST

Christopher hitchens says it best

from Slate:

But if we must have an officiating priest, let it be some dignified old hypocrite with no factional allegiance and not a tree-shaking huckster and publicity seeker who believes that millions of his fellow citizens are hellbound because they do not meet his own low and vulgar standards.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 15:36:31 PM CST

Thanks!

Gotta love Hitchens!

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by: bluegrassfool @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 16:13:52 PM CST

[ Parent ]

By the way - on Jeremiah Wright

I've never really had much of a problem with Mr. Wright. I'm not where he is on many things, but I actually thought he was correct when he said that our chickens are coming home to roost for the bad behavior and bullying perpetrated by our government on the rest of the world.

I don't think it's a God issue and that it is God punishing us. I simply think that the terrorism and hatred directed at the U. S. is a natural and predictable consequence of our behavior. That doesn't mean we deserve to be victimized by terrorist attacks, but ignoring the fact that we fostered the ill-will against us and made ourselves into a highly desirable target is a requirement to better behavior by our government in the future.

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. -- John F. Kennedy (inspired by Dante's Inferno)

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by: oldbrit @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 15:39:16 PM CST

Obama is probably paying a debt that he can't get out of...

because nobody gets to be president without making deals.  But it will be a phyrric victory for the 8'ers. In fact, they may be sorry Warren was ever on stage by the time Lowry finishes praying.  

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by: george.w @ Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 16:14:19 PM CST