Exodus VP: gays haven't suffered enough to deserve civil rights

Hmm..perhaps Thomas would next like to explain how con-artists

and con-servatives have suffered so deeply as to be afforded the right of entitled arrogance in self-appointing themselves as the sole arbiters of everyone's religious beliefs and their basic God(dess)-given right to fall in love.

Surely those who are in political organizations whose missions are hidden behind jaded constructions of religious doctrine have some sort of suffering tale to tell the public. After all, throughout American history, weren't they persecuted by the Native Americans, who en masse must have kidnapped good con-servative "christian" children and forcibly relocated them to religious indoctrination camps (schools) while slaughtering their parents or restricting them to rather useless reservations? Or perhaps it was the way in which con-servative "christians" believed so deeply in religious liberty that it must have been the Mormons who murdered "christian" leaders, drove con-servatives from their temples, and forced them to settle in some wild frontier state or emigrate to Mexico? And oh, how those con-servative "christians" must have suffered so deeply when various colonies-turned-states in the early U.S. tried to establish and enforce special rights laws for anyone who wasn't a con-servative "Christian". . .

Thomas, whose primary life struggle appears to be how to best earn a salary masquerading as a retreaded heterosexual who, despite all of the social support possible for him to be straight throughout his entire life, fell victim to the door-to-door recruitment of dark-sided gays, needs to concentrate more on trying to build a case for his own religion's right to equality. Anyone associating with people who try to run around the country claiming that ex-gays are victimized (because there is simply NO support or civil rights for those who come out as heterosexual) needs to take a long look in the mirror.

Why can't Thomas explain how "ex-gays-for-pay" have worked so diligently to "re-define marriage" by encouraging unnatural physical and spiritual relationships between people of the opposite sex who have no desire for them? Or how con-servatives are so determined to completely destroy the institution of "union" by removing love from the commitment and assigning nothing more fulfilling than a dubious biblical interpretation and heterosexual public opinion as the only real motivation for marriage? Surely there is something wrong with a group of people who hate the idea of actual spiritual union with another human being so deeply that they will destroy the meaning of that relationship in order to enforce a strict order designed for nothing other than protecting their own insecurity.

When con-servatives like Thomas - and his radical social employers - support a redefinition of marriage which declares that lying and appearance are far more valued virtues than honesty and commitment from the heart, they want marriage to be motivated by nothing more than a sense of duty to the state and his chosen church.

And just because Thomas has chosen to sacrifice his life doesn't qualify him for special rights to demand others be sentenced to the prison created by his own selected cafeteria "religious" beliefs. After all, he doesn't really "marry" a woman - he marries the white baby Jesus.

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by: kevinbgoode @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 05:37:27 AM CST

The reason to get married is to be married

Well said, Kevin. The fundies seem to have a strange view of what marriage is or should be. For example, take the lame comment often voiced that gays have the same right as straight people to marry -- they can marry anyone they want as long it is someone of the opposite sex. This implies that being married in and of itself is the reason to get married. What matters is that you will be in a state of marriedness, and if gay people want to be in that state of marriedness, they must do it with the opposite sex. The choice of partner is inconsequential and it doesn't matter whether you love the person or not, at least you will have attained marriedness.

+++

If people don't deserve civil rights unless they have suffered enough, then why do straight white men have more civil rights than anyone else?

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by: Stephanie, in Victoria @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 06:09:39 AM CST

[ Parent ]

he marries the white baby Jesus

There's every reason to believe that as a Semite the little baby Jesus was not, in fact, white at all but most probably darker-skinned.

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by: Alan down in Florida @ Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 13:03:39 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Ok Jaw Hitting Floor

Gosh where do I begin.  I can not begin to formulate the words I want to say without lacing them with extremely foul language so suffice it to say..... That pissed me off.

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by: vwboy81 @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 06:37:17 AM CST

gay america

It seems to me that the gay activists want a gay america.
How nice...everyone in the pleasant mood of Rosie ..DAY AFTER DAY.....you want gay marirage (on the surface) for the medical/financial reasons...but the (in the closet reason) is for acceptance.  We accept the lifestyle (even though you could not make a family if you stayed in a padded room for 36 years.,...keep trying...one day you'll conceive)..that's what you really want....for us to ACCEPT  that you're here...you're queer and we just have to accept it...sorry...the battle will rage longer than the abortion debate....(or unless all straights go underground and make families) while gays above ground are looking for their nearest sperm bank, surrogate or  adpotion agency.

We don't hate you...If you want to be gay fine...just don't engineer the rest of society around your narrow view.  It's not like gays are gonna produce children.  But you should raise  those  you have grabbed to be gay for sure...if a child of yours grows up to be hetero you should weep hot tears.

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by: fundy girl @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:19:28 AM CST

Ok, I have a headache

Thanks to fundy girl.  I have officially suffered.  Can I have my rights now?  Please?

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by: JoshWatermanMN @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:21:57 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Evolution

Sir Charles Darwin, rest his soul.

My dear fundy girl - have you ever consulted the works of Charles Darwin?  In his observations, species that either faced reproductive challenges, extinction or even the change of the tide evolved - evolved to the point of Asexual reproduction, or even means of a host.

So umm you should rethink your statement, and most definately think before you speak.  We live in a world of possibilities, so therefor - anything is possible.

And as far as acceptance goes, how many fundies are entertained by Will & Grace, Project Runway, Queer Eye, or any other show containing a gay character?  There are many, so many that the hypocracy makes me sick - and makes many of us sick - so before you preach about acceptance, or tolerance - take a gander at what you watch on television, who does your hair, who serves your food in a restaurant, who accepts your payments at the gas station, utility companies, who sold you your car.

If you want to roll back in time to the era of segregation be my guest but suffice it to say - TEH GAY is everywhere - and like it or not, we are here to stay.

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by: vwboy81 @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:28:49 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Underground???

Ya promise?  Pretty please, with sugar on top?

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by: callie @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:36:45 AM CST

[ Parent ]

where to begin

It's not like gays are gonna produce children.  But you should raise  those  you have grabbed to be gay for sure...if a child of yours grows up to be hetero you should weep hot tears.

What arrogance and ignorance!  First, my partner DID produce a child (and we are working on producing a second one).  Second, we are NOT raising him to be gay...we are raising him with all the love we can give him (and that includes discipline on occassion).  He has a greater than 90% chance of being hetero!  If one day he comes to us and says "I'm gay" we will love him and accept him!  Frankly, already at 8, all signs point to hetero.  He's got a major crush on his teacher.  Recently I walked in on him working his mojo on his little friend Princess.  He takes her picture with him to bed (it's so cute).

However it shakes out, our love and acceptance are NOT based on his sexuality.  They are based on the fact that he is our child.  It is appalling to me your level of ignorance!  Talk about a narrow view!!! 

You seem to want to equate marriage with the production of children.  As if marriage is an assembly line for the production of mini-me's.  As such, you relegate those who cannot have children to some sort of second class citizens.  I guess that would put you in full agreement with the state amendment (Washington I believe) that would require all married couples to reproduce within 3 years or be annulled.  Absurd!

j.

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by: Jonathan @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:21:31 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Don't use "we"

You don't speak for me or anyone else.  You speak only for yourself and on the behalf of a grateful nation, thank you for not home schooling.  What makes a person get up in the morning thinking that it would be interesting, even fun, to troll?  Sounds like you need a life...

My America includes LGBT families.

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by: Mena @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 12:59:28 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Fundamentalist Girl

Why are you trolling a lgbt blog that obviously has no interest in your side?  If at least you "care" to read us you can be respectful like some of the conservatives on here.  But to go off on unhinged comments and tantrums just turns us off even more from "Christianity".  To know Christ is to love everyone, I do not think you know Christ. 
Salaam Alaikum
Shalom
Jesus Loves You
Blessed Be
-Aly

Try not. Do or do not. There is no try.

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by: celestialaly12 @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 15:01:18 PM CST

[ Parent ]

If you want to be gay fine...just don't engineer the rest of society around your narrow view.

Please explain to me what my narrow view is that I want to engineer the rest of society to represent. I checked all the bulletin boards and mirrors in my house and couldn't find the list anywhere.

Now dear Fundy Girl here is a secret for you. If all heterosexuals boarded rocket ships tomorrow for outer space - mankind would survive. Babies would be born, loved and taught to be openminded and accepting of all others.
Just because orientations may lead you to same sex coupling they do not prevent sexually performing with someone from the opposite sex. Just ask any of the closeted men and women trapped in bogus heterosexual marriages because of their fear of disapproval by ignorant idiots like you.

To use an old cliche - "We're Here. We're Queer. Get Used To It."

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by: Alan down in Florida @ Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 13:28:08 PM CST

[ Parent ]

It's called projection, Alan.

It's easy to understand why Fundy Girl and those like her automatically assume we're out to convert everyone when you put it in the context of the fact that they're out to convert everyone.  Converting people is central to their lifestyle, so much so that they can't even begin to grasp the idea that someone else may not consider the act of converting others, let alone everybody else, to their way of life.

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by: Jarred @ Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 08:49:30 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Excellent Point Jared

Had never considered that although as a Jewish child I'd always wondered why my religion didn't have missionaries or attempt to convert others to our faith. If anything, we make conversion so onerous as to weed out the insincere.

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by: Alan down in Florida @ Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 09:19:10 AM CST

[ Parent ]

it shouldn't be overlooked

that there are struggles unique and specific to the gay community that the black community did not experience.  i am not minimizing the horrific struggle of blacks for equality in this nation, but distinctions do need to be drawn.  gays have had to endure things that blacks did not, just as blacks endured things that gays do not.

bigots and fundiebigots jump on those distinctions as reasons to disqualify gays from claiming civil rights struggle status, and they will happily stoop to the nauseating tactic of trotting out blacks to denounce it and cut off dialogue.  is there a punchlist somewhere that we aren't aware of?  it's quite simple: when common american civil rights are denied to a specific american taxpaying minority for no viable, supportable reason, then it is a civil rights issue. 

and what is doubly insulting is the fact that corporations other, more progressive countries are decades ahead of our government, the one that proclaims to be a beacon of freedom and equality for all.

The gays stole my lunch money

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by: matt in mpls @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:20:44 AM CST

Also overlooks the worst-case scenario of binational couples

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by: NancyP @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:29:30 AM CST

Fundies are working on it though

They are working hard to ensure that we suffer enough.  If they keep up at this pace, we'll have suffered enough in 10 years to finally get our rights.  Keep it up assholes, you're doing the work for us!

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by: callie @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:35:04 AM CST

EVERYONE

please do not feed the fundie trolls. 

it disheartens me to see specific topics get hijacked for the purpose of arguing with individuals who read as well as they write--which is, very poorly.  the breadth and intricacy of the dialogue from genuinely talented blenders gets squelched to cater to the whims of such dim-wittedness, to absolutely no end.  i know it's tempting, but please, just don't do it. 

The gays stole my lunch money

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by: matt in mpls @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:39:58 AM CST

I'm sorry, Matt.

You're right.  I'm a BADDDD, BADDDD girl! ;)  I know better just couldn't resist.

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by: callie @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:05:25 AM CST

[ Parent ]

resistence is futile

That's the problem, you people can't resist your impulses.

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by: DurtySanches @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:11:26 AM CST

[ Parent ]

To paraphrase the Lays potato chip slogan

You can't just debunk one!

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by: JoshWatermanMN @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:13:20 AM CST

[ Parent ]

it's so true

i know it's asking a lot, so my only hope is that the next one will show up and throw us all off by being able to spell words like "resistance". 

The gays stole my lunch money

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by: matt in mpls @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:35:45 AM CST

[ Parent ]

You say resistance i say screw you.;

Maaybe youd prefeer dis?

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by: DurtySanches @ Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:56:53 AM CST

[ Parent ]

i forgive you, callie :)

The gays stole my lunch money

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by: matt in mpls @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:23:27 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I'm with you Callie

I'm a baaaad wil' boy!

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by: vwboy81 @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:43:48 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Hey Pam, where's the trashcan?!

Seriously, we need an ignore button.

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by: callie @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:32:07 AM CST

almost ready to hit the eject button

Fundygal's on borrowed time.

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:36:17 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Pam The Gunslinger

"....tell me, do you feel....lucky?"

Pam my hero!

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by: vwboy81 @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:47:22 AM CST

[ Parent ]

MWAH!!! Love ya, Pam!

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by: callie @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 12:35:16 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I believe Fundygirl wandered over here from Revolution...

... where she has been causing nothing but dissension and hard feelings as well.

Based upon her writing style, use of ellipses and all caps, I believe she is the infamous "T.J.," who makes the same kind of wild and false accusations about gay people and how they live on the Revolution board.  She also was upset that James Hartline was banned by Revolution, so that probably led her here.

She hasn't posted there since Saturday, and I see she posted her first message here on Monday, so that's another reason I think it's her.

Revolution's moderators have the patience of Job, but even the posters over there have basically learned to ignore her, and her husband who posts under "unlost."  They have stated at least once that they see themselves as responsible to "warn" Revolution of the error of their apostate ways, and I'm sure she's here to do the same thing.

She won't change, Pam, and she won't listen, either. 

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by: Marvin the Martian @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 12:43:25 PM CST

[ Parent ]

How tolerant of you

Do you normally demean people to justify your lifestyle?

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by: DurtySanches @ Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:00:10 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Excuse me,

Do you normally demean people who happen to be left-handed by calling the lives they lead a lifestyle to justify your right-handedness?

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

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by: Daimeon @ Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:40:01 AM CST

[ Parent ]

No I don't but obviously you do

Please provide a detailed description of my lifestyle so that I can determine whether there is something in it that requires justification. Which in case you haven't read your Bible lately - is something on God and I have the right to judge. And having spoken with him recently, God and I are doing just fine thank you.

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by: Alan down in Florida @ Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 13:33:19 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Unclear on the concept

The majority seems to have this idea that civil rights are something they can deign to grant or withhold as they see fit, based on how sympathetic they feel toward the minority.  They sure do love holding all the cards and telling everyone else how to behave in order to earn their approval, don't they?

Civil rights are not charity, ffs.

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto

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by: Sportin' Life @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:38:50 AM CST

As If!

Like Randy Thomas really cares about what happens to young Black people!  Gimme a break!  The disingenousness of the man is absolutely stunning.  As an African-American man(no longer young), I don't appreciate him using Black history as a fulcrum for his bigoted arguments.

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by: Stuffed Animal @ Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 18:06:22 PM CST

[ Parent ]