News Tips?
-- tips@phblend.com

PHB Mobile


About
-- The Blog
-- Pam | My home page
-- Autumn
-- Daimeon
-- Julien
-- "Radical" Russ
-- Terrance

Contact the Baristas

The Blend Blogrolls

Activism


Best of the Blend
Blog Posts

Special Events and Interviews

Blend-o-licious endorsements...



The Christian Civic League of Maine's Mike Hein calls Pam's House Blend:
"a leading source of radical homosexual propaganda, anti-Christian bigotry, and radical transgender advocacy."

He is "praying that Pam Spaulding will "turn away from her wicked and sinful promotion of homosexual behavior." (CCLM's web site, 10/15/07)


Ex-gay "Christian" activist James Hartline on Pam:
"I have been mocked over and over again by ungodly and unprincipled anti-christian lesbians."
(from "Six Years In Sodom: From The Journal Of James Hartline," 9/4/2006, written from the "homosexual stronghold" of Hillcrest in San Diego).

"Pam is a 'twisted lesbian sister' and an 'embittered lesbian' of the 'self-imposed gutteral experiences of the gay ghetto.'" -- 9/5/2008



Peter LaBarbera of Americans for Truth Against Homosexuality heartily endorses the Blend, calling Pam:

A "vicious anti-Christian lesbian activist."
(Concerned Women for America's radio show [9:15], 1/25/07)

"A nutty lesbian blogger."
(MassResistance radio show [16:25], 2/3/07)


Pam's House Blend always seems to find these sick f*cks. The area of the country she is in? The home state of her wife? I know, they are everywhere. Pam just does such a great job of bringing them out into the light.
--Impeach Bush


who monitors yours Bevis ?? Just thought I would drop you a line,so the rest of your life is not wasted.
--"Joe"

Content © 2004-2008
Pam Spaulding

House Blend logo © 2005
Melissa McEwan

Photo of Pam Spaulding
© Judy G. Rolfe
All Rights Reserved.


SITE TERMS AND CONDITIONS
Support the Blend




An Online Magazine in the Reality-Based Community.



So- What Arguments Worked Today in California?

by: Louise

Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 19:58:47 PM EST


And which ones were either duds or not fully fleshed out?

Open Thread Time, folks!

=========================================

For my money, Michael Maroko was right on the money in this exchange with Justice Chin:

Associate Justice Ming Chin asked attorney Michael Maroko, representing same-sex couples, whether a remedy to this situation would be to have the state issue licenses only for civil unions to all couples, leaving "marriage" to the faith community.

"If you're in the marriage business, do it equally," Maroko replied. "And if you're not going to do it equally, get out of the business."

There's the thing: California DID inject itself, "in a very REAL and LEGALLY binding sense", smack dab in the middle of the marriage business.

And unless they reverse themselves and allow all equal marriage, as was the case pre-November 4th 2008, there will be no end of the lawsuits of discrimination.

Let's have at this thing...

Louise :: So- What Arguments Worked Today in California?
Shannon Minter hit one out of the park as well:

And it was a disappointment driven home by Shannon Minter, legal director for the National Center for Lesbian Rights, in his final remarks to the court.

When Chief Justice Ronald George suggested the argument that gay couples were being denied rights was a bit disingenuous and may have been an argument chosen for strategic reasons, than legal ones, Minter was blunt.

"There is nothing strategic about the impact this decision will have on the lives of tens of thousands of same-sex couples and their children," said Minter. "Being relegated to a different legal status and singled out on the basis of a characteristic with no relationship to ability to participate marks [same-sex couples] as second-class citizens, and there is real harm done to their children. It will exacerbate exponentially the outsider status enshrined in our state constitution."

What didn't work? Well, imo the entire participation of Assistant AG Christopher Kruger:

An awkward moment for pro-gay attorneys came during the arguments of Christopher Krueger, who was representing the California Attorney General's office. Attorney General Jerry Brown supports equal marriage rights and has said he believes Proposition 8 is unconstitutional; but Krueger was questioned heavily about Brown's disagreement that Proposition 8 is a revision.

"On which side are you?" asked Justice Kennard, bluntly, before Krueger had a chance to even begin his argument. Krueger acknowledged that he considered himself on the side of those challenging Proposition 8. And he tried to make the point that Proposition 8 is an "unprecedented kind of amendment" - that it took away a fundamental right without a compelling need to do so.

Kennard seemed to dismiss the argument as a "novel theory" and then the justices became mired in a discussion of what constitutes an "inalienable right" - something Krueger seemed to struggle with, too.

The reporter writing this piece was kind; Kruger's testimony was more poorly delivered than that of the public defender in "My Cousin Vinny".

Stammering and stumbling, out of either nerves, lack of conviction or incompetence, his was a painful testimony to listen to and frankly did more damage than good- one could not get past HOW he was delivering his messages to ascertain what the hell he was saying.

One would think that he would have been FAR more prepared to speak before the California Supreme Court- he was an utter mess.

Jerry Brown, you SHOULD have been there- and there SHOULD be a backlash upon you and your office. That you decided to give this a pass is perplexing and disappointing.

Was any explanation given?

RL obligations prevented me from hearing after the Kruger disaster; would love to get analysis from those who were able to hear/watch further...

Tags: (All Tags)
Bookmark and Share
Print Friendly View Send As Email
getting the govt
out of the marriage business and leaving marriage to churches would be TRUE equality.

Civil unions for all straight and gay would be true equality.

Give the righties exactly what they have been demanding.  Give the word "marriage" to the churches.  Strip the word "marriage" of all of its legal meaning.

And, the wingnuts would NEVER approve of it because they know that any gay couple wanting a "marriage" would easily find a church that would bless their union as a marriage.

Even though they say they want to leave marriage to THE CHURCHES, what they mean is that they want to leave marriage to THEIR CHURCH.

If civil unions and religious marriage were truly separate institutions, with NO LEGAL BENEFITS derived from religious marriage, then the straights wouldn't be able to claim their unions were more valuable than gay unions.  And, their ultimate to is to have society place more value on straight unions than on gay unions.


I agree but would go a step further.....
And say that straights don't want to give ANY value to gay unions or GLBT people in general.  They don't want to acknowledge gays at all, in an effort to shun us completely from society and force all of us into celibacy or straight culture.  The whole thing begs the question of the legislators and the voters and the country:  what are the gays supposed to do if they can't get married?  They are legislating our lives into narrow paths that can only be lived out in celibacy, unrecognized relationships that have no support in the world or in legal terms, never having children (which is a human desire not limited to straights) or adopting children.  Doesn't it make you want to just kill yourself?  I mean, what the hell do we have to live for?  And of course, this is why this is instutionalized discrimination and cruel and unusual punishment.  Yes, straights don't believe gays when they say they are born with these traits.  Of course they can never fully understand, since they are straight.  So I guess we just have to try to survive, like we have been, and make what little out of life the majority will allow to us.  GLBT people already have been tormented beyond what any other "suspect" class has been tormented and it has ruined most of our lives forever.  The scars will never heal.  Black people or Jewish people or Latino people have always had their churches and their families and their communities to support them (when they were allowed to remain as families).  Gays have nobody.  Not our families (who are mostly straight and are easily convinced that we are deviant), not our legal system, not our politicians, not our churches, not our schools, not our Constitution, not our landlords, not our butchers or bakers or candlestick makers.  We have nobody but each other.....but they (the majority) won't even let us have each other.  This is the ultimate humiliation that any human can place on another and they do not believe we will ever be equal to them.  Even the straight people who say they support us think we are still broken and that it's unfortunate that we are the way we are.  

[ Parent ]
No rights if the majority says so
Ken Starr (boo, hiss!) basically argued that the majority can deprive a minority of any and all rights by a simple vote:

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/...

That's not vox populi, that's the voice of the mob.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report


And it looks like the CSC is going to buy it.
If they do, it marks the end of America.  The end of the concept of inalienable rights.  The end of "all men are created equal."  

I've been growing increasingly depressed as I think over yesterday's proceedings.  If the court actually buys into Starr's argument, the theocracy the fundies want will be here.  It will mean, quite simply, that we can no longer rely on the courts to protect our rights, our fundamental personhood.  It's the end.  They may of course rule against us without actually endorsing Starr's arguments.  But how likely does that seem?

I've been saying for years, half-jokingly, that America was a nice idea for a country and it's too bad it never caught on.  That isn't looking so much like a joke any more.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary


[ Parent ]
The death penalty amendment proved long ago ...
... that California is an ochlocracy.

[ Parent ]
Jerry Brown is not our friend.
His incentives are twofold:

--To appear to be on our side so that we do not destroy him in the gubernatorial primary.
--To make sure that we lose so that the crazies don't have the political will to sabotage him.

So he tried to sabotage us while pretending to be on our side, by arguing against the only theory that could see us through to victory (revision versus amendment) and offering incoherent bullshit as his supposed position instead.

Eff that guy.


While the lawyer representing the AG office
fumbled and appeared not to help the cause of equality, it is incorrect to state Jerry Brown is not a friend to GLBT citizens.  His office bungled the job, yes, but he personally is gay friendly.
While there may be better Democratic gubernatorial candidates in the mix, Jerry Brown can and often does work outside the box, a trait often lacking in elected public officials.  

[ Parent ]
For those who weren't able to watch or listen to the hearing...
Jeremy has posted a set of audio recordings over on Good As You.

____________________________________
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.


I'm confused by what this means:
"California DID inject itself, 'in a very REAL and LEGALLY binding sense', smack dab in the middle of the marriage business."

The state of California has been issuing marriage licenses ever since there's been marriage in the state of California.  I don't understand how they've "injected" themselves into something they created, owned and operated since the inception of statehood.

I also don't understand this:

"getting the govt out of the marriage business and leaving marriage to churches would be TRUE equality."

How would abandoning a government function to religion be true equality?

Religions throw weddings, which are symbolic parties for the marriages they decide they like.  They don't issue or enforce marriage licenses, they don't issue or enforce divorces, they don't have anything to do with marriage.  Just weddings.

Your professional wedding planner has exactly as much say over your marriage as any religion does, which is to say none at all.

This isn't even touching upon the fact that not all religions agree on which marriages they like.  Which matters not one bit.  My married friends and family are just as married whether the Catholics, the Jews, the Buddhists, the Wiccans, the whatever like ir or not.  Because religions has nothing to do with marriage.

Lastly, of course, separate is not equal.  It just isn't.  We know this.  Everybody gets the same marriage rights or nobody does.  That's equal.

Before you're ready to surrender your rights to the first bunch of bullies who won't stop picking on you, you might reconsider if that's such a good idea.  Whiney-ass crazy superstition-ruled fairy-tale-based hate groups don't have any legal function in our country.  Thank God.


Menu

Make a New Account

Username:

Password:



Forget your username or password?




Join the Blend Chat Room



Report TOS Violations

Premium Sponsors



BlogAds






Search the Blend
Current site


PHB 2.0 Web
Search Blend 1.0 Archives
Ad Networks


BlogSheroes BlogAds


Miscellany

RSS Feeds

Subscribe with Bloglines

Visit NCBlogs


frontpage hit counter

Stats

Powered by: SoapBlox