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Which way is Obama's religion wind blowing?

by: Pam Spaulding

Mon Mar 16, 2009 at 09:00:00 AM EDT


There are two articles out that discuss Obama's current spiritual advisors in the evangelical sphere, "Without a Pastor of His Own, Obama Turns to Five" in the NYT, and "Obama and the New Evangelical Movement" at Change.org. Without a home church, he has turned to men who have a less-than-positive view of LGBT rights. This is significant because none represent the liberal, gay-affirming United Church of Christ, a denomination he attended in Chicago. That's not to say these men (and they are all men) are wholesale religious conservatives, the conundrum is that many are very involved in the otherwise liberal social justice front.

Right: Look at who else Rev. Kirbyjon advises besides our new president. The Rev. officiated at Jenna Bush's wedding.

The NYT's Laurie Goodstein:

All are men, two of them white and three black - including the Rev. Otis Moss Jr., a graying lion of the civil rights movement. Two, the entrepreneurial dynamos Bishop T. D. Jakes and the Rev. Kirbyjon H. Caldwell, also served as occasional spiritual advisers to President George W. Bush. Another, the Rev. Jim Wallis, leans left on some issues, like military intervention and poverty programs, but opposes abortion.

None of these pastors are affiliated with the religious right, though several are quite conservative theologically. One of them, the Rev. Joel C. Hunter, the pastor of a conservative megachurch in Florida, was branded a turncoat by some leaders of the Christian right when he began to speak out on the need to stop global warming.

But as a group they can hardly be characterized as part of the religious left either. Most, like Mr. Wallis, do not take traditionally liberal positions on abortion or homosexuality. What most say they share with the president is the conviction that faith is the foundation in the fight against economic inequality and social injustice.

Goodstein is quick to say that the White House refused to comment on the article.

More below the fold.

Pam Spaulding :: Which way is Obama's religion wind blowing?
Michael A. Jones at Change.org:
So why can't President Obama, who as recently as 1996 "unequivocally" supported full marriage rights for same-sex couples, keep some religious company that supports full marriage equality for same-sex couples?  From Maine to California, he'd have plenty of religious leaders to choose from.  Instead, President Obama has embraced a new evangelical wing that instead of bolstering progressive values, believes in a version of centrist social justice that may be great on issues like poverty and the environment, but fails on some of the preeminent civil rights issues of today.

Among the ministers that Obama has been consulting with since his election include Bishop T.D. Jakes, who has called homosexuality a "brokenness" and has said that he wouldn't hire any LGBT person who was sexually active.  (Editorial note: Bishops Jakes's son was arrested in January after allegedly cruising for gay sex in a popular Dallas park.  While I feel for the son, I can't help but wonder if the turn toward down-low sexual gratification isn't a byproduct of growing up in a household where your father thinks all LGBT people are spiritually broken.)

Caldwell, in particular deserves closer examination (Check out these stats from Forbes about Caldwell). Does Obama support this view of his?
Another minister with Obama's ear is Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, a Houston pastor and head of the Windsor Village United Methodist mega-church.  Caldwell's church has actively promoted an ex-gay ministry known as "Metanoia," which seeks to "help homosexuals understand with God's help that 'change [is] possible.'
Whoa. OK, so let's assume a mealy mouthed message like "the President does not believe in ex-gay therapy" or some such nonsense, should he make a statement. If he doesn't then what is he doing talking to Caldwell when there are plenty of other prominent pastors he could choose to break bread with who don't subscribe to that view?

So what can we read from this decision on pastors in his inner spiritual circle on Obama's part? After all, faith can and should be a private matter -- but sadly, it never is in American politics. In this case it certainly isn't since he has selected very high-profile evangelicals to consult with. What does First Lady Michelle Obama feel about this, given her appearances before LGBT audiences?

She embraced the community and passed on the specific kind of support that her husband, as president would give to moving civil equality forward:

Was that a mirage I experienced in Denver? At the very least, all of this calls for a public statement from President Obama to clarify whether this evolution in spiritual guidance does reflect a shift in his thinking on LGBT rights -- and the pursuit of the promises he made to the community that helped him cross the election finish line. After all, given the power that religion holds in this country, we're entitled to an answer. Any answer that throws up "it's a personal matter" is BS, since he had no problem touting his faith to appeal to religious voters. A clarification is warranted before this blows up in his face...again.

It should also be noted that Obama's swift actions with the Lilly Ledbetter Act and return to a sane policy on stem cell research have sent clear signals about his stand on equality for women and science-based governing despite the expected hits he knew he'd take from the right wing. He's done nada for LGBT rights so far, and has been silent in the news of late about whether the feds should extend benefits to same-sex partners of government workers, lest it raise the red flag about DOMA and sent strong signals that a repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell is going on the back burner.

Related:
* Obama's new pastors (diary by QScribe)

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If President Obama wants to be religious,
  He needs to keep religion out of his policies.  So far I am not nervous, maybe it is the Stem Cell switch that keeps me on the non-nervous side.  I know we are stuck with Presidents that have faith and have spouted that thier faith is part of their lives.

 I wish it didn't matter, and religion was completely out.  But than again Obama kept the Bush Faith Based BS.  troubling, but not enough to get me pissed off at him.  Time will tell though.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.


I obviously voted for the man
but, as I've said a hundred times, he gets one chance at advancing our rights.  BTW, my husband of nine years is a divorce attorney and sees the utter dysfunctional bullshit divorce drama that >60% of heterosexual marriages experience here.  It really feels good when some of his clients are planning the next wedding before the final judgement is even entered in the divorce, but we have to visit our estate attorney every two years to pay an assload of money for a stack of documents that could be easily challenged by outside parties.  If we don't have the protections we deserve by 2012, it will be a third party that gets all of our money and votes.  Simply.  Our community has waited for this opportunity for decades, I'm not willing to wait anymore.  

Man, Obama is starting to bug
this gay Chicagoian more than a little bit. He is wearing his religion on his sleeve a little too much for me.


Business As Usual
We shall always be condescended to by the breeders until we STAND UP AND KICK ASS!

Michelle Obama gave a very pretty soeech.

The wives always give very pretty speeches. Helps the husbands mantain silence.

And we all know what silence equals.


Religion in Politics
This was one of three front-page stories yesterday that just left me gasping. (AIG and the potential taxing of employer-provided health benefits were the other two.)

I honestly don't care who he consults with spiritually when it is a personal matter.  However, the idea of a man as brilliant as Obama is, feeling the need to get guidance in policy-making (if that is what is going on) is simply incomprehensible to me.  And particularly from THAT group.

I feel a sagging weight on my back again.  I guess I should be thankful at least for having a 2 month respite.


I wonder just how much we should be reading into this.
Many people join a church just for the sake of belonging to a church. That Obama is retaining his positions of abortion and stem cells indicates to me that this will have little effect on his policy decisions. Just the same, we should keep a very close eye on this.

NOM ~ "Mine is an honorable task and I shall drown out anyone who claims otherwise!"

that's why I mentioned Lilly Ledbetter Act and stem cell research
We cannot ignore that he moved swiftly in those situations, despite the flack he knew he would get from the right wing. That's why his admin can't use that cover for failing to do anything for the LGBT community because of 1) the economy or 2) fear of right wing reaction.

I raised this issue to generate discussion, since none of us knows how he will move on our issues, given he's surrounding himself with spiritual leaders who are either outright anti-gays or queasy foot draggers on our issues.


[ Parent ]
people believed Obama was more gay friendly than he really is
I feel bad for people who are frustrated with Obama, but since his campaign he's made it clear the LGBT community is not really a priority for him.

As with many issues, it's hard to know what Obama really believes about gay rights.  I know there was an article that said he supported gay marriage in the 90s, but we also know he now doesn't support it because "God's in the mix."

Clinton probably would not have been much better in terms of gay issues, and either of them is better than McCain, but we are not respected/liked enough for most politicians to go out of their way to support.

Be better, not bitter!


Like I said Anthony
I am pretty pissed at Obama.

After all, these are the same type of church people that called him a uppity...you-know-what (baby...I get pissed thinking about it) and campaigned against him in Chicago for years. And now he's catering to these bastards.


[ Parent ]
yes, it's funny how things changed both for Obama and "church folk"
Both have seemed to do a 180 switch out of convienence.  I think they realized how they could use each other to accomplish their goals (Obama: increased credibility with the black community, church: access to power and the ability to claim him as "one of our own")

Be better, not bitter!

[ Parent ]
LOL, yeah in the meantime
forget the seed money that David Geffen left on the nightstand. Sounds a little like DL syndrome to me.

[ Parent ]
This article makes no sense
Who cares about these preachers race or sex?  Neither of those things have an impact on my life.  The President has the right to pick his Preachers just like the rest of us do, or the right to have no Preacher at all.  What's more important is that Obama doesn't let his religious beliefs dictate how he governs, as he told Eugene Robinson, people have a right to their beliefs, but they don't have a right to force those beliefs on others.  I think that's a message that we all should take to heart.  Especially those "progressives" who seem to believe that the President should think just as they do.  

they do have an impact on your life
We just had a president who governed by his alleged faith, and Obama campaigned heavily on his faith. It's relevant to discuss this topic, given the Donnie McClurkin and Rick Warren incidents. His insistence on "outreach" and "compromise" with evangelicals who oppose his on-the-record support for LGBT rights may have some impact or none at all on how he governs as president.  No one is saying he cannot pick his pastor; I'm saying he's chosen a group of men who have one thing in common -- resistance to movement on LGBT rights. No voices on the side of full equality.

We have a right to ask these questions, and he can answer them quite quickly as he has with fair pay for women and stem cell research. All we've heard so far on the LGBT front is that it's being backburnered for "more important" matters. Given the economy is important, no one is saying our rights have to be the top of the agenda, but the signals we're seeing so far are disturbing -- and the fact the White House doesn't feel a need to respond to the news as reported in the NYT article is also troubling.  


[ Parent ]
Perhaps you should pay a bit more attention
What's more important is that Obama doesn't let his religious beliefs dictate how he governs

But he does.  What do you think is the origin of a statement like "God's in the mix" if not some damnfool "spiritual adviser"?  Obama couldn't have made it more clear that his superstition faith guides him on policy, at least on LGBT issues.  If he had selected one of these men as his "spiritual adviser" I might see some justice on your position.   But five?  FIVE?!?!  Just how much "spiritual guidance" does this man need?

Americans suffer from an ignorance that is not only colossal, but sacred.  --James Baldwin


[ Parent ]
EXCUSE ME!
What's more important is that Obama doesn't let his religious beliefs dictate how he governs
Obama claims that his opposition to same-sex marriage is bases on his religious beliefs.

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. -- John F. Kennedy (inspired by Dante's Inferno)

[ Parent ]
I have no idea where the President's own spirituality takes him
But I will bet dollars to donuts that the DNC is helping (pressuring) him to choose some of these wingnuts to herd in their sheeple's vote for the Dems.

Hate stops a beating heart.

I would have to agree,
  The DNC does stupid shit like this.  UMM, Stem Cell Research is not going to pull in the sheeple.  But I know, they must try as it seems to be they way they do business.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

[ Parent ]
you have to read this outlandish comment at Pandagon
Remember, this is an alleged progressive blog. I was waiting to see a comment like this pop up.
Pam, you don't put ammunition into the enemies' hands.  I see five pastors as a good sign - if there is just one and you jettison him/her it's news and a rift, if it's five well, there can be a quietly revolving door.  Watch.  It's not a one way street either.There is also the possibility that he's talking to them.

But, he needs some ReThuglican votes and those of Dems who are not in ultra secure seats on the economic stuff.  Now with embryonic stem cells, he has chosen another issue to cement those votes to him.  LGBT is polarizing as is abortion.  I say these won't get touched until the economy is on sounder ground.  Real universal health care reform, too.

Stamping our feet and saying we want it NOW (or I want you to promise NOW) isn't going to help.  But, it must seem as if that's a "wait quietly on the back of the bus for your turn." Wait yes, quietly, hell no.

The existence of my post apparently was just asking too much. My response:
Oh, yes. It's easy to say that, particularly if you're not at threat of losing your job, not because the economy is tanking, but simply because you're LGBT.

* or if you're a bi-national same-sex couple, where the foreign partner is under the threat of deportation.

* or you work for the State Dept abroad in a dangerous country and your partner hasn't any of the rights and benefits given to heterosexual spouses.

* or you're beaten up within an inch of your life by a homophobe and the crime isn't given the same penalties as would be the case if it were over religious beliefs, gender, or disability.

I could go on and on, but I haven't seen any evidence he's even moving in that direction, only evidence and statements from White House mouthpieces that nothing is on the table anytime in the near future. And now this. I don't think discussing the confusing signals out there and asking for clarification is a "demand." Sorry, I'll just go back to the bus and wait until it's the "right time" , or better yet, let it run over me. Thanks.



Thanks for that response Pam


[ Parent ]
Well,
so much for the decline of evangelicals' influence at the federal level...

stem cells
Restrictions on embryonic stem cell research originated with Congress, which, each year since in 1996, has forbidden the use of federal financing for any experiment in which a human embryo is destroyed. This includes the derivation of human stem cell lines from surplus fertility clinic embryos, first achieved by Dr. James Thomson of the University of Wisconsin in 1998.

President Clinton contemplated but never implemented a policy that would have allowed N.I.H.-financed researchers to study human embryonic stem cells derived by others. Research was able to begin only in August 2001, when President Bush, seeking a different way around the Congressional restriction, said researchers could use any lines established before that date.

Critics said the distinction between the Clinton and Bush policies lacked moral significance, given that each was intended to get around the Congressional ban, based on a religious and moral argument. The proposed Clinton policy amounted to: "Stealing is wrong, but it's O.K. to use stolen property if someone else stole it." The Bush policy was: "Stealing is wrong, but it's O.K. to use stolen property if it was stolen before Aug. 9, 2001."

Mr. Obama has put the proposed Clinton policy into effect, but Congressional restrictions remain. Researchers are still forbidden to use federal financing to derive new human embryonic stem cell lines. They will, however, be allowed to do research on new stem cell lines grown in a privately financed lab.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03...

There is no situation so complex it can't get even worse

As I decided a few days ago...
My new name for Obama is
Bastard Hypocrite Obama
I hate it when I am correct about the true nature of people whom I would much prefer to support and admire.

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. -- John F. Kennedy (inspired by Dante's Inferno)

oldbrit I was a little ticked when I saw that a couple of days ago BUT
I'm almost with you and even worse.

Ifit's for pastoral reasons or private counseling, then keep this private!

TD Jakes is just another slap in the face, it's nowhere near the bitch slap that Warren was. Why is Obama catering to these motherf*****s?  


[ Parent ]
All I can say is
It isn't very often that you hope and pray that your opinion is wrong. I had Obama's number when the McClurkin thing occurred and ever since I've been disappointed to be proven correct at every turn as heinous act, upon heinous act keeps piling up.

I'm with you on this totally and would cut off a minor body part if it would wake Obama up.

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. -- John F. Kennedy (inspired by Dante's Inferno)


[ Parent ]
Terrific Post and Great Comments
As a state senator in Illinois, Obama had strong progressive positions, including favoring marriage equality. As a presidential candidate, he decided to "track to the center" at the expense of the lgbt community (and others). Donnie McClurkin was not an accident. Nor were the tens of times he repeated his new-found opposition to our having the same rights to a spouse that he takes for granted. He knows that lgbt votes (and money!!) are a significant part of the Democratic Party base so you see a Change.gov website with some wonderful commitments to ultimately supporting our civil rights (absent marriage)and we get tagged along in his speeches about the American tableau, such as when he tells us that he has "some gay friends in the red states."
    Now that he has been elected, I don't see Obama doing anything to advance lgbt rights or implement his website agenda. Gay and lesbian appointees are no more visible in his administration than they were in Bill Clinton's, although the culture has changed markedly. More than 50 days have passed and, while we can all cheer the plan to close Gitmo and the restoration of sanity on stem cells, there are no specific crumbs for the lgbt community. As asking Rick Warren to give the invocation shows, I think Obama feels that evangelical crossover votes will help him win in 2012. He thinks support for lgbt causes will hurt this outreach and he doesn't think lgbt people will go to another party (or that the loss won't equal the evangelical gain). I think the lgbt community and their allies need to show him and the Democratic party that this is a miscalculation. We need to be very visible, raise a lot of constructive noise, and make clear that votes and cash will only come to those who deliver on our rights.

Yeah, well...
we get tagged along in his speeches about the American tableau, such as when he tells us that he has "some gay friends in the red states."
I have some black friends. but that claim doesn't mean a damned thing unless I'm willing to stand up and fight for them.

I'm old enough to remember segregationists who claimed they had black friends, too.

They're the same ones that made the states' rights argument against integration, inter-racial marriage, and equal civil-rights in general for blacks. That's the same argument Obama uses against equal rights for gays.

They'd even claim that their black friends were just as much against integration as they were.

As I've been saying... Bastard Hypocrite Obama.

The worst part is that the name accurately describes the man.

Gay and lesbian appointees are no more visible in his administration than they were in Bill Clinton's, although the culture has changed markedly
Don't forget that Clinton had the courage to fight for an end to discrimination in the armed forces when ~35% of the public supported the issue. Now, Obama won't even do it when over ~75% of the public supports the issue. That makes Obama a coward or a bigot. I'll leave it up to you to decide.

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. -- John F. Kennedy (inspired by Dante's Inferno)

[ Parent ]
If Clinton had been brave enough to do that
we wouldn't have been stuck with this sorry excuse for a compromise. Obama's actions so far on DADT match his campaign promises.

NOM ~ "Mine is an honorable task and I shall drown out anyone who claims otherwise!"

[ Parent ]
Meanwhile the "Evengelical Movement" is sinking faster
than Leonardo DiCaprio in the last reel of Titantic, while the fastest growig religious denomionation is "None."

If Obama thinks the Holy Mixmaster (where Miss God lives) is the way to go then he's in for a rude awakening.  


TWO MAIN POINTS:
1) ...in a comment on another site:
I do not believe, however, that this decision is not predicated upon a belief that the majority of the AA community agrees with these preachers than it does with the only black minister in the UCC who threw him under the bus.

I have the impression that in a passive aggressive way, Barack Obama does not easily forgive betrayals.

I would just add, of course not. Remember this is a man who was 'betrayed' and 'abandoned' by his father.

2) This from another:

Every first-term president begins campaigning for his second term the day after the inauguration. Obama is no different. If he must pander to the Evengelicals, the Catholics, the Jews, the Baptists, the Muslims, the Hindus, or any religion he will.

This is not the change we wanted, but it is the change I expected. If Reverend Manning could produce votes for him, I think Obama would go to Harlem and talk to him. LGBT people are not at the core of Obama's politics, so why should he recognize them. Chicago politics and LGBT policies do not mesh well and Obama wants the machine to continue to support him or he will be another Jimmy Carter; gone in 4 years.

and there we are... HE IS OFF AND RUNNING FOR 2012, so that's all folks!



"If the time isn't ripe, we have to ripen the time."
DOROTHY HEIGHT


It's all about his street cred
I knew that from Donnie McClurkin on.

And as I have said and I will repeat; Jeremiah Wright is a gay-affirming pastor who is one of the lone voices in the black religious community speaking out about AIDS; it wasn't lost on me when Obama dumped him. And he couldn't find another UCC pastor?

I have to stop reading this and calm down a minute.

 


[ Parent ]
Obama tried to hold on to Wright...
until it ultimately became impossible for him to stay with him.

I firmly believe that his primary concern is the economy. Everyone he's dealt with thus far from the religious community have been people vocal on poverty issues. Having conservative evqangelicals come out in support of his econmic policies and breaking up the GOP's meme that Christ is ok with the super rich....is a laudable goal.


[ Parent ]
Building Coalitions With Haters Is Not Laudable Or Necessary
Obama has a Congressional majority, the bully pulpit and huge favorables in the polls. He hardly needs to build a coaltion with right wing religious zealots to accomplish anything. He also has no just basis to sell out the rights of women or gays or others unlike himself because he believes it may help his agenda elsewhere.  

[ Parent ]
Exactly how much bailout money has Obama given to
the super rich again?

[ Parent ]
Obama and Prop 8
I've been busy with a move so I may have missed it if this has been blogged about here.

I was shocked to find out yesterday when reading Rex Wockner's article in the San Francisco Bay Times that Obama sent a letter to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club during the campaign which said:


As the Democratic nominee for President, I am proud to join with and support the LGBT community in an effort to set our nation on a course that recognizes LGBT Americans with full equality under the law. That is why I support extending fully equal rights and benefits to same sex couples under both state and federal law... And that is why I oppose the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution, and similar efforts to amend the U.S. Constitution or those of other states. ...

Finally, I want to congratulate all of you who have shown your love for each other by getting married these last few weeks.

The part about "divisive and discriminatory" was widely known (at least within the LGBT community) but this is the first I'm hearing of the rest of the letter, which is much more powerful. The shocking thing is that the club forwarded the letter to the No on 8 committee, which did nothing with it, even as the other side was making robo-calls to African Americans using Obama's words at Saddleback to insinuate that he supported Prop 8. This is beyond incompetence. And they want to run the next campaign? I don't think so.

Beyond Prop 8, I think we should demand that Obama and his spokespeople stop saying he doesn't support gay marriage and instead say he prefers civil unions, especially at the federal level. Even ignoring the fact that he once said he supported same-sex marriage, there is no way that someone who really opposed gay marriage could say "I want to congratulate all of you who have shown your love for each other by getting married these last few weeks" and "I support extending fully equal rights and benefits to same sex couples under both state and federal law."

If a state opts for marriage equality, whether through legislation or court decision), he opposes any attempt to revoke that right, so he can't be that opposed to it. It would be far less offensive to me if he would just say he prefers civil unions but respects the rights of states to go further and either way supports granting full federal benefits.


old news
The letter was discussed here on the Blend when it was released, so its contents wasn't a secret, and the letter was published widely in the MSM. No On 8 chose not to use it; as you said, that borders on incompetence, however, what we don't know if Obama's team didn't want it used, or No on 8 made the decision thinking it would hurt Obama in the general. No excuses, just speculating.

[ Parent ]
That's the essence of our "Leaders" Pam --
"Love us, even though we're not loveable. And if you want to pretend you don't know us, that's fine. We understand."

We're not getting anywhere until we get rid of people who think "success" for LBGT issues means walking around with a giant "Please Kick Me" sign on your back.  


Kirbyjon?
My God, that's an awful photo of Bush and Kirbyjon.

Kirbyjon looks like Steppin-Fetchit doing the shuffle and nothing like his other photos.

Either that, or Kirbyjon's saying, "My Gawd, Mr. President, I've never seen a johnson that big on a white man."


The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. -- John F. Kennedy (inspired by Dante's Inferno)


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